How would you stop cowboy builders before they cause problems?
Options
Comments
-
Well said and my sentiments entirely. Taking today as a random example, I am being courted, and smooth talked, to go into a job which has gone horribly wrong and sort it out, The costs involved in putting it right are eye watering. The magnitude of the work is eye watering. Indeed these costs are far greater than what would have been paid to ensure a decent job in the first place. This is not unusual but consumers, in the vast majority of cases, have no interest in this.
So why has the job gone horribly wrong? Because somebody who did not have the skills was allowed to do it.0 -
I have been called into a number of homes where people have had work done to a poor standard and require us to rectify works. When you dig deeper into the issue, it is invariably because the home owner has gone for the lowest price.
This was not my experience. It sounds as though you are quite happy to let cowboys work in your industry. Perhaps you don't realise it reflects badly on all of you.
Additionally, customers do not do any due diligence. They often only have a mobile phone number for the builder and have no written address. They fail to ask for references and fail to check insurance details and appropriate certification (eg Gas Safe).
Why do you think this is the consumer's fault? Perhaps it should be a requirement for builders to provide full written information? In fact one of the builders I contacted advertised on the Which? Trusted Traders website where the scheme lays down in detail all the paperwork they are supposed to provide. He refused to provide it as he did not think it was relevant, and he had already 'jumped through all the Which? hoops' which he thought were onerous, but I thought were very basic.
I complained to Which? and they removed him from the scheme, but a few months later they took him back on again! Why, exactly, do you see this as my fault?
The here is the blinder: "we paid him cash and have no receipts"
Then maybe cash payments should be illegal? Maybe it should be a requirement for a written contract to be in place? Wouldn't that solve this problem? I takes two parties to agree to deal with cash payments, or are you saying builders have cash forced on them against their will?
Sorry, but home owners need to take responsibility for their stupid decisions.
You have not provided any evidence that home owners are responsible for cowboy builders. You seem to be endorsing cowboys. Interesting.
.....................0 -
So one has to be pragmatic and here you and I disagree. Your title says it all. "Cowboy builders" with no mention of the conditions needed for them to operate in. This condition is for every cowboy builder there has to be an ample supply of cowboy consumers.
So if you were scammed by a cowboy financial adviser, estate agent or other trade, you would blame yourself? I doubt it. You would ask why such people are allowed to operate. Your argument is bizarre. Are you campaigning for these jobs to be deregulated? If not why not, as taking your argument to its logical conclusion then there should be no regulation of any occupation.
Consider the last couple of days. There have been posts from consumers who have no concept of the building industry, the trades or even fundamentals. Yet they willingly engage contractors (which may be the wrong contractors, and the wrong trades), then compound this with no working drawings, no Buildings Regulations, no Specification, no Contract, no payment scheme, no inspection ...the list goes on.
Then surely some sort of regulation which required contractors to do these things would solve this problem?
The government has tried, in a half hearted manner, to stamp out cowboy builders. This has failed but the Government has never dared to address cowboy clients.
I do not accept your concept of a cowboy client.0 -
the_r_sole wrote: »Mandatory basic contracts for all works, that protect the employer and the contractor. Problem is most people see formal contracts over the top for small works then wonder why the builder who's been paid a huge amount up front disappears.
Where is your evidence that 'most people' see formal contracts as over the top for small works? I certainly don't and had great difficulty getting trades to put anything at all in writing.
What is your sample size of 'most people'? How did you measure their attitudes? How did you analyse the data?
If you have this evidence, I would be very interested in seeing the primary sources, but I bet you haven't.0 -
Where is your evidence that 'most people' see formal contracts as over the top for small works? I certainly don't and had great difficulty getting trades to put anything at all in writing.
What is your sample size of 'most people'? How did you measure their attitudes? How did you analyse the date?
If you have this evidence, I would be very interested in seeing the primary sources, but I bet you haven't.
My evidence is working for many years advising clients to use contracts for works that I have designed on every job, no matter how small but the majority not doing it.
Once you get to somewhere approaching 100k or work people tend to want a contract and sometimes even employ the architect as a contact administrator, but even then you have some clients who don't understand the complexity of actually delivering buildings - we've just had one client who after a year and half planning battle for a 4million quid building, doesn't want to employ us to oversee the building works because he's built a house extension before so how hard can it be?!
I know you only like dealing with published facts and not real first hand experience or practical solutions to issues in the construction industry, but I can only give the direct experience I have in dealing with small scale residential projects during all of my professional career - which although is regulated and costly for me every year in memberships, registration, insurance etc is still overrun by unqualified, uninsured plan drawers who are not regulated but regularly recommend on this (and many other forums) as a cost saving, I've lost count of the number of times where I've read "you don't need some fancy architect for this building project"...0 -
One interesting thing I came across recently when I ordered some flooring, was that the small local shop where I ordered belongs to a deposit scheme. I paid a deposit, and it is lodged within a scheme so if the shop goes out of business or anything happens my money will be returned to me.
Maybe something like this could work in the building industry? They have done a similar thing for letting agents who hold deposits from people who rent property.0 -
One interesting thing I came across recently when I ordered some flooring, was that the small local shop where I ordered belongs to a deposit scheme. I paid a deposit, and it is lodged within a scheme so if the shop goes out of business or anything happens my money will be returned to me.
Maybe something like this could work in the building industry? They have done a similar thing for letting agents who hold deposits from people who rent property.
You mean just the same as a retention in a contract where a percentage of the total value is witheld until a specific time after completion - building contracts are already there to perform the functions you want0 -
the_r_sole wrote: »Once you get to somewhere approaching 100k or work people tend to want a contract and sometimes even employ the architect as a contact administrator, but even then you have some clients who don't understand the complexity of actually delivering buildings - we've just had one client who after a year and half planning battle for a 4million quid building, doesn't want to employ us to oversee the building works because he's built a house extension before so how hard can it be?!...
Ah, the client who had an extension built once and is now an expert in project management. Don't you just love them?
What's the point of slogging your guts out at college for years and building up decades of experience? Any fool can do it.0 -
Ah, the client who had an extension built once and is now an expert in project management. Don't you just love them?
What's the point of slogging your guts out at college for years and building up decades of experience? Any fool can do it.
It's amazing, I've just handed over a smaller building and it's been close to a full time job for a year, so much coordination required with information on site etc and we had a brilliant main contractor, this guy wants to do it as subcontracted trades! We've actually said if he wants to go down that route our fee would be higher! It's mental from a costs/quality point of view but he's likely to find out the hard way too0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343.3K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.7K Spending & Discounts
- 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173.1K Life & Family
- 248K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards