Am I in trouble? Etoro huge gain and huge loss

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Hello,

I am fairly new to the UK and prior to that, I've been living in an almost tax-free country (Dubai) for most of my life so when it comes to taxes, I had almost no idea how they work.

Long story short:
On October 2017 I invested $22000 in Etoro (crypto currencies).
By December I closed the Crypto positions and my overall equities increased to $96000.

Not so smart: I then opened new positions on 10th of January 2018 on Crypto with $96000, however, once the crypto crashed, the total equity was then worth $8000.

Here is my BIG question:
I didn't open or close any positions since January 2018 until now.
I did not withdraw any money from Etoro - not even once.
My overall equity now is worth less than 13000 US dollars.

Do I owe HMRC taxes? and if yes, roughly how much do I need to pay even though I am at a loss?

Many thanks.

Comments

  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 10,941 Forumite
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    On October 2017 I invested $22000 in Etoro (crypto currencies).
    By December I closed the Crypto positions and my overall equities increased to $96000.
    Assuming a) you were a UK taxpayer at the time b) these transactions aren't classed as gambling by HMRC, this would have generated a taxable gain.

    You will need to work out what the GBP equivalents of your investment and proceeds were at the time of those transactions to calculate the gain.

    You had an £11,300 capital gains allowance in 2017/18 so you can deduct this and any allowable losses (this does not include losses in tax years after 2017/18) from the gain. The rest is taxable at 10% if it is within the basic rate tax bracket, or 20% if higher.

    There will also be penalties to pay to HMRC as the deadline for filing your 17/18 tax return and paying the tax was 31 January 2019.
    Here is my BIG question:
    I didn't open or close any positions since January 2018 until now.
    I did not withdraw any money from Etoro - not even once.
    My overall equity now is worth less than 13000 US dollars.
    Doesn't matter if you haven't actually sold your positions and realised any losses.

    Even if you do, you can't carry back losses against capital gains in previous tax years. You can however carry forward losses indefinitely. HMRC must be notified of the loss within 4 years of the end of the tax year in which you made them. Realistically speaking, you aren't going to make an $83,000 gain from speculating on cryptocurrency again, but many years from now you might sell a property investment or something so it's worth not forgetting about.

    On the positive side, you should still have some money left over from the $13,000 once you pay the CGT bill and penalties. Plenty of people speculating on cryptocurrencies via Cypriot brokers lose all their money or worse.
  • LobsterMemory
    LobsterMemory Posts: 439 Forumite
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    This HMRC policy paper suggests that assumption b) above is likely to be valid

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-on-cryptoassets/cryptoassets-for-individuals
  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 10,941 Forumite
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    This HMRC policy paper suggests that assumption b) above is likely to be valid

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-on-cryptoassets/cryptoassets-for-individuals

    Based on the information the OP provided it certainly looks that way. But eToro exists on a fringe where some of these bucket shops offer actual assets and others offer spread bets. (Spread betting means I place a bet that Bitcoin will go up in the next week but no actual Bitcoin is ever held.) The latter is classed as gambling and winnings are not taxable. So it seemed worth caveating.
  • londoninvestor
    londoninvestor Posts: 1,350 Forumite
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    Malthusian wrote: »
    Based on the information the OP provided it certainly looks that way. But eToro exists on a fringe where some of these bucket shops offer actual assets and others offer spread bets. (Spread betting means I place a bet that Bitcoin will go up in the next week but no actual Bitcoin is ever held.) The latter is classed as gambling and winnings are not taxable. So it seemed worth caveating.

    eToro does CFDs, which are treated as futures contracts by HMRC and are in scope of CGT.

    But your overall point is entirely correct, as there are other providers who do economically very similar products which are treated as gambling.
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