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  • FIRST POST
    • khakitthecat
    • By khakitthecat 17th Sep 19, 8:49 PM
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    khakitthecat
    Are we crazy or is offer price unrealistic?
    • #1
    • 17th Sep 19, 8:49 PM
    Are we crazy or is offer price unrealistic? 17th Sep 19 at 8:49 PM
    Hi everyone -
    First time poster and FTB and wanted to get some feedback from the good folks on the forum as myself and my partner aren't sure if we are going crazy or not!

    We just put an offer on this property
    (sorry can't post links, i think you can find links if you google below)

    rightmove property-63272106
    Some quick notes from the EA
    * Vendor is trying to sell quickly, “open to offers” has family member sick
    * Currently a rental, last tenant moving out 2nd week of September
    * Listed June, no offers, two price drops, initial price at £1.1m
    * EA mentioned that he feels price is very high as well during the walk through
    * Worse condition than pictures suggest

    Two comparables on the same street (both were given by EA!)

    rightmove: property-82083950
    * Sold Jun 2019
    * Slightly smaller yard, refurbished two bath two bed, with a study
    * £970,000 - £903 per sq feet
    * Refurbished

    rightmove prop=55232229
    * Sold Sept 2018
    * £1,100,000, £921 per sq foot
    * More bedrooms

    Given the slow down in London housing market, the larger macro issues with Brexit, the state of the flat, and most importantly recently sold properties we offered £815k and were rejected. We upped the offer last week and now waiting to hear back...

    Now we are aware that the vendor can sell at whatever price they so chose, but we can't reconcile what the EA is saying about the vendor being "very motivated" yet at the same time having the offer price so high. We also spoke to the EA's manager when our initial offer was rejected and he indicated that we should use a £1000/sqft benchmark even though they had provided comps closer to £900/sqft.

    How much of this is just posturing vs vendor getting bad advice? Is it often that agents within the same agency disagree like this? Are our expectations unreasonable? We are a bit flummoxed at the moment and getting quite frustrated...

    Thanks for reading
Page 1
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 17th Sep 19, 9:27 PM
    • 6,687 Posts
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    Cakeguts
    • #2
    • 17th Sep 19, 9:27 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Sep 19, 9:27 PM
    The price is going to differ between sides of the street on that one. One side is in a council estate and the other isn't. Excouncil property is cheaper even in London.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 18th Sep 19, 4:51 AM
    • 37,463 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #3
    • 18th Sep 19, 4:51 AM
    • #3
    • 18th Sep 19, 4:51 AM
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-63272106.html
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-82083950.html
    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-55232229.html


    Sold in the last 2 years

    more like this 1/2 mile 0-£1.25m 2b+

    forsale 113/39 SSTC

    plenty of stock, not that many in the process of being sold.

    more like this 1/2 mile 0-£1.25m 3b+

    18/10 might be worth checking those 18 out to.

    800-900 2b+

    15/6 I would compare to those if you went in a £815.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 18th Sep 19, 5:32 AM
    • 67,259 Posts
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    PasturesNew
    • #4
    • 18th Sep 19, 5:32 AM
    • #4
    • 18th Sep 19, 5:32 AM
    sq ft is a nice thing to note, I do it myself. But, when it comes to what a place is worth it's about the size to you, how it flows to you, whether it suits your needs.

    A bigger place, seemingly cheaper per sq ft, could simply be dismal and laid out poorly....

    Look at the property, not the £/sqft. Just be annoyed they want more than others per sq ft, but is each foot nicer?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 18th Sep 19, 5:57 AM
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    getmore4less
    • #5
    • 18th Sep 19, 5:57 AM
    • #5
    • 18th Sep 19, 5:57 AM
    Downstairs bathroom put me off.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 18th Sep 19, 6:00 AM
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    getmore4less
    • #6
    • 18th Sep 19, 6:00 AM
    • #6
    • 18th Sep 19, 6:00 AM
    I wouldn't trust those listings that are removed from rightmove by EAs, those show asking prices, not what they sold for.
    Originally posted by frago
    that 3bed sold for £1.1m
    asking was £1.2m
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 18th Sep 19, 9:29 AM
    • 3,451 Posts
    • 5,175 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    • #7
    • 18th Sep 19, 9:29 AM
    • #7
    • 18th Sep 19, 9:29 AM
    The only person who knows is the vendor, and the opinions of "the internet" ain't gonna change what he or she thinks, regardless of how much you want it to.

    You can't force someone to sell at a price they don't want to sell at, so if you can't agree a price, move on.
    • sal_III
    • By sal_III 18th Sep 19, 9:58 AM
    • 1,398 Posts
    • 1,352 Thanks
    sal_III
    • #8
    • 18th Sep 19, 9:58 AM
    • #8
    • 18th Sep 19, 9:58 AM
    Vendor being motivated is one thing, dropping £200k under asking is a bit too much to swallow.

    There is much more to a property than just raw £/sqft. Layout, location, neighbours, building materials/quality/age
    • khakitthecat
    • By khakitthecat 18th Sep 19, 8:48 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    khakitthecat
    • #9
    • 18th Sep 19, 8:48 PM
    • #9
    • 18th Sep 19, 8:48 PM
    Vendor being motivated is one thing, dropping £200k under asking is a bit too much to swallow.

    There is much more to a property than just raw £/sqft. Layout, location, neighbours, building materials/quality/age
    Originally posted by sal_III
    Thank you for the reply, agree that there is more than £/sqft however when looking at the property the one we bid on has a worse layout and buildings are right next to each other. Just trying to think if we are missing anything obvious
    • khakitthecat
    • By khakitthecat 18th Sep 19, 8:50 PM
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    khakitthecat
    Vendor being motivated is one thing, dropping £200k under asking is a bit too much to swallow.

    There is much more to a property than just raw £/sqft. Layout, location, neighbours, building materials/quality/age
    Originally posted by sal_III
    Yes that is a fair point which is why I mentioned that expectations seemed to be very far apart. I think the factors that your pointed out seem to support the lower price
    • khakitthecat
    • By khakitthecat 18th Sep 19, 8:51 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    khakitthecat
    The only person who knows is the vendor, and the opinions of "the internet" ain't gonna change what he or she thinks, regardless of how much you want it to.

    You can't force someone to sell at a price they don't want to sell at, so if you can't agree a price, move on.
    Originally posted by ReadingTim
    Totally agree. Just trying to see if we are missing anything in terms of why asking is so high. In the end we probably will end up moving on.
    • khakitthecat
    • By khakitthecat 18th Sep 19, 8:55 PM
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    khakitthecat
    sq ft is a nice thing to note, I do it myself. But, when it comes to what a place is worth it's about the size to you, how it flows to you, whether it suits your needs.

    A bigger place, seemingly cheaper per sq ft, could simply be dismal and laid out poorly....

    Look at the property, not the £/sqft. Just be annoyed they want more than others per sq ft, but is each foot nicer?
    Originally posted by PasturesNew
    If you check out the links from @getmoreforless you will see that the property we want is in WAY worse condition, worse layout, and less rooms/bathrooms than the comps that sold for less (per £/sqft) which is why we are so confused.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 19th Sep 19, 2:57 AM
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    getmore4less
    you offered and then upped the offer they are waiting for more to come.

    If the EA has any clue how much you have in the pot and if it is more than your cuurent offer they will have told the vendors.

    you will see that the property we want is in WAY worse condition, worse layout, and less rooms/bathrooms than the comps that sold for less (per £/sqft) which is why we are so confused.
    Look for something better.

    Why there?

    Its quite expensive if 2 beds will fetch £1m.
    • sal_III
    • By sal_III 19th Sep 19, 9:00 AM
    • 1,398 Posts
    • 1,352 Thanks
    sal_III
    Thank you for the reply, agree that there is more than £/sqft however when looking at the property the one we bid on has a worse layout and buildings are right next to each other. Just trying to think if we are missing anything obvious
    Originally posted by khakitthecat
    You are missing the fact that no sane vendor will entertain a 20% / £200k underbid right off the bat. You went in and upped the offer, showing interest in the property, the vendor is simply playing a long game waiting for you to up it again.

    Who knows what the motives of the vendor for asking so much are, whether he is delusional or EAs are hyping him up, or he needs the cash for a new property he likes, or he has debts to settle. Doesn't really matter.

    What matters is how much are YOU prepared to pay for it. Think of that number, make a final offer and if rejected - move on
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 19th Sep 19, 10:08 PM
    • 8,442 Posts
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    Crashy Time
    You are missing the fact that no sane vendor will entertain a 20% / £200k underbid right off the bat. You went in and upped the offer, showing interest in the property, the vendor is simply playing a long game waiting for you to up it again.

    Who knows what the motives of the vendor for asking so much are, whether he is delusional or EAs are hyping him up, or he needs the cash for a new property he likes, or he has debts to settle. Doesn't really matter.

    What matters is how much are YOU prepared to pay for it. Think of that number, make a final offer and if rejected - move on
    Originally posted by sal_III
    Sane vendors price to sell right off the bat, the others take time to come around to dropping the price...

    Like this one shaving over 200k off over a few months, unfortunately still laughably over-priced though......

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-53748651.html
    • datlex
    • By datlex 19th Sep 19, 10:45 PM
    • 2,052 Posts
    • 2,545 Thanks
    datlex
    Sorry but a million pound for a 2 bed property is crazy but I guess that is London prices for you.
    Sealed Pot Challenge no 37, Attempting Frugal Living. Became debt free at the end ot 2016. Used savings from becoming debt free to put a deposit on a bungalow last year now working on becoming Mortgage free by overpaying. (without overpayment MFW date is 2036)
    • khakitthecat
    • By khakitthecat 21st Sep 19, 5:50 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    khakitthecat
    You are missing the fact that no sane vendor will entertain a 20% / £200k underbid right off the bat. You went in and upped the offer, showing interest in the property, the vendor is simply playing a long game waiting for you to up it again.

    Who knows what the motives of the vendor for asking so much are, whether he is delusional or EAs are hyping him up, or he needs the cash for a new property he likes, or he has debts to settle. Doesn't really matter.

    What matters is how much are YOU prepared to pay for it. Think of that number, make a final offer and if rejected - move on
    Originally posted by sal_III
    Yea fair points, thank you. Our thinking was that since the property had been on the market for three months plus the other factors point to more of an realistic conversation about their offer price. In the end of the day I guess vendor will do whatever they want...
    • khakitthecat
    • By khakitthecat 21st Sep 19, 5:54 AM
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    khakitthecat
    Thanks everyone for the posts and thoughts. To update our second bid was rejected without a counter bid back. At this point we are going to walk away and hopefully vendor realizes they need to lower their expectations
    • warby68
    • By warby68 21st Sep 19, 6:33 AM
    • 1,371 Posts
    • 10,910 Thanks
    warby68
    To answer the original question, yes 20% under asking for the vast majority of houses will be unrealistic. Being realistic, it may also make the vendor hostile towards you. Whilst really just a business transaction, there is a lot of 'feeling' tied up in residential property deals and people don't like 'silly' (in their view) offers.

    It doesn't really matter what its worth or whatever formula you use to justify that. People sell their homes for what they want or need and price them to reflect that. There is usually some margin but not 20%.

    No counter offer suggests you are still way off their mark.

    Nothing wrong with leaving your offer on the table in case the vendor reviews their position before you find something else but that 20% 'gap' does make this one less likely. You are also right not to offer more than YOU believe its worth (other than the odd few k to get a deal to the finishing line).
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 23rd Sep 19, 2:22 PM
    • 8,442 Posts
    • 2,982 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    To answer the original question, yes 20% under asking for the vast majority of houses will be unrealistic. Being realistic, it may also make the vendor hostile towards you. Whilst really just a business transaction, there is a lot of 'feeling' tied up in residential property deals and people don't like 'silly' (in their view) offers.

    It doesn't really matter what its worth or whatever formula you use to justify that. People sell their homes for what they want or need and price them to reflect that. There is usually some margin but not 20%.

    No counter offer suggests you are still way off their mark.

    Nothing wrong with leaving your offer on the table in case the vendor reviews their position before you find something else but that 20% 'gap' does make this one less likely. You are also right not to offer more than YOU believe its worth (other than the odd few k to get a deal to the finishing line).
    Originally posted by warby68
    People TRY to sell their homes for what they want or need, and more and more end up reducing the price after years sitting on the market.
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