Npower and economy 7

Squire_Fulwood · 18 June 2018 at 11:51AM

Having read some other posts in the forum I see my problem is minor but I have half an hour before the dentist drills into me so here goes.

My last supplier couldn't get the hang of Economy 7 or the fact that I heat the house using storage heaters (propane is dearer). Every time a meter reader called they reversed the meters. Every time I read the meters I got them the right way round. They didn't believe me of course so I got letters and had to take readings during the day to prove which meter moved.

I got phone calls asking me to go and read the meters and gave them over the phone and Customer Services entered them back to front. I can't remember a meter reader or Customer Services ever getting them the right way round.

If I went on line and provided readings the computer would say that it didn't compute and that I had to phone Customer Services so I spent many hours listening to Vivaldi (or worse) and being told that my call was important to them.

So I went on Uswitch and sacked the provider.

Npower offered annual savings which was attractive and I couldn't wait to get shot of the old supplier since when .....

I have had them enter my meters back to front.

I have repeatedly told them that I use storage heaters so consumption on one of the meters will change dramatically during summer months. No-one seems to be able to handle that.

I have been through the exercise of taking daytime readings and mailing them via snail mail. (Remember how convenient it is to enter readings on line?).

And now to my point. They have raised the Direct Debit from £121 a month to £193 a month. Part of the reason is probably due to the meter reading fiasco but the main reason seems to be that the amount of saving with a new supplier is misquoted and I am now playing catch up.

£121 is too low but that is what they set to get my business. £193 is too high and when I catch up due to the heating being off they will owe me money. I can't wait to see what they do then.

This is no way to run a battleship.

House_Martin · 18 June 2018 at 12:50PM

I bet you were with either BG. EDF. Scot Power or had the idiot meter readers from MDS , formerly G4S reading your meters.
Our hand held data collectors are set up to reverse the Eco 7 rates. Only the experienced meter readers get it right which causes problems for the majority of Eco 7 users who actually benefit from a transposed Eco 7. Only true night storage users will complain because their bills increase with a reversal of the reads.The ones who still have an Eco7 meter but have ditched Eco 7 end up getting most of their units billed at night rate.
Roll on smart Eco 7 which will end this farce
Suppliers are even more stupid because they rely only on auto billing nowadays, so its garbage in/garbage out unless the customer gets on the blower and complains

nPower · 18 June 2018 at 1:26PM

Squire_Fulwood wrote: »

Having read some other posts in the forum I see my problem is minor but I have half an hour before the dentist drills into me so here goes.

My last supplier couldn't get the hang of Economy 7 or the fact that I heat the house using storage heaters (propane is dearer). Every time a meter reader called they reversed the meters. Every time I read the meters I got them the right way round. They didn't believe me of course so I got letters and had to take readings during the day to prove which meter moved.

I got phone calls asking me to go and read the meters and gave them over the phone and Customer Services entered them back to front. I can't remember a meter reader or Customer Services ever getting them the right way round.

If I went on line and provided readings the computer would say that it didn't compute and that I had to phone Customer Services so I spent many hours listening to Vivaldi (or worse) and being told that my call was important to them.

So I went on Uswitch and sacked the provider.

Npower offered annual savings which was attractive and I couldn't wait to get shot of the old supplier since when .....

I have had them enter my meters back to front.

I have repeatedly told them that I use storage heaters so consumption on one of the meters will change dramatically during summer months. No-one seems to be able to handle that.

I have been through the exercise of taking daytime readings and mailing them via snail mail. (Remember how convenient it is to enter readings on line?).

And now to my point. They have raised the Direct Debit from £121 a month to £193 a month. Part of the reason is probably due to the meter reading fiasco but the main reason seems to be that the amount of saving with a new supplier is misquoted and I am now playing catch up.

£121 is too low but that is what they set to get my business. £193 is too high and when I catch up due to the heating being off they will owe me money. I can't wait to see what they do then.

This is no way to run a battleship.

Hi Squire Fulwood

Thanks for your post.

I'm sorry to learn you're having issues with your Economy 7 billing.

The easiest way to help correct this is to complete a "load test" - taking two sets of readings (day/night) twice in the same day, between 9am and 9pm. That way it'll clearly show which reading is which and the energy suppliers and meter readers can correct this on their systems - it'll also allow us to note this on your account to prevent any similar issues down the line, so we appreciate you taking the time to do this for us.

If you can contact us using the details on our profile page, putting MSE in the subject header so we know what this relates to, we can do what we can to help, including checking if you qualify for any bill reductions under the UK Code of Practice for accurate bills.

Kind regards

Jess

House_Martin · 18 June 2018 at 2:42PM

nPower wrote: »

Hi Squire Fulwood

Thanks for your post.

I'm sorry to learn you're having issues with your Economy 7 billing.

The easiest way to help correct this is to complete a "load test" - taking two sets of readings (day/night) twice in the same day, between 9am and 9pm. That way it'll clearly show which reading is which and the energy suppliers and meter readers can correct this on their systems - it'll also allow us to note this on your account to prevent any similar issues down the line, so we appreciate you taking the time to do this for us.

If you can contact us using the details on our profile page, putting MSE in the subject header so we know what this relates to, we can do what we can to help, including checking if you qualify for any bill reductions under the UK Code of Practice for accurate bills.

Kind regards

Jess

That will not always work Jess. Old analogue 24 hour timer switches can easily have their night rate coming on at any time in the 24 hrs, day or night. The cheap rate 7 hrs could well be coming on slap bang in the middle of the day. Older digital meters with built in clocks can be drifting at least 5 hrs now they have been in over 10 years making night rate in action at noon. These will be the older Ampy digital meters with a button to scroll through the readings and the time of its built in clock.
I have been in meter rooms with over 60 eco 7 meters in it and nearly every one was coming onto the day rate well away from the published times. From 8.30 in the summer months up to 12.30 pm these eco 7 s would switching over from night rate to day rate. The only way with a digital clock like these is to check the clock itself and if it is showing before 7.30 am (GMT ) then the meter is displaying night rate.
These types of meters default to displaying the reading which is currently active, so a meter reader or customer needs to see what time the meter thinks it is before making a decision which rate is which.
With older analogue meters with two readings there is a little window in the top right hand corner with an arrow pointing to either day or night indicating which rate is active, be it day or night.

Squire_Fulwood · 18 June 2018 at 8:16PM

House_Martin wrote: »

I bet you were with either BG. EDF. Scot Power or had the idiot meter readers from MDS , formerly G4S reading your meters.
Our hand held data collectors are set up to reverse the Eco 7 rates. Only the experienced meter readers get it right which causes problems for the majority of Eco 7 users who actually benefit from a transposed Eco 7. Only true night storage users will complain because their bills increase with a reversal of the reads.The ones who still have an Eco7 meter but have ditched Eco 7 end up getting most of their units billed at night rate.
Roll on smart Eco 7 which will end this farce
Suppliers are even more stupid because they rely only on auto billing nowadays, so its garbage in/garbage out unless the customer gets on the blower and complains

Thank you for that, it gives me a warm glow to know that most everyone else is having the same problem(s) (there are others that I may mention in another post).

I am a true night storage user but I don't think the last provider had ever heard of that since the computer just would not accept anything except a straight line consumption graph.

My attitude is that if I am going to spend the odd morning on hold on a telephone then I am working for that company and should get a wage. However they seem to prefer to think that it is me making all the mistakes.

Most of my problems were with the previous supplier and not the one in the title but as of now Npower are beginning to go the same way as the previous one (isupplyenergy....name and shame)

Squire_Fulwood · 18 June 2018 at 8:39PM

nPower wrote: »

Hi Squire Fulwood

Thanks for your post.

I'm sorry to learn you're having issues with your Economy 7 billing.

The easiest way to help correct this is to complete a "load test" - taking two sets of readings (day/night) twice in the same day, between 9am and 9pm. That way it'll clearly show which reading is which and the energy suppliers and meter readers can correct this on their systems - it'll also allow us to note this on your account to prevent any similar issues down the line, so we appreciate you taking the time to do this for us.

If you can contact us using the details on our profile page, putting MSE in the subject header so we know what this relates to, we can do what we can to help, including checking if you qualify for any bill reductions under the UK Code of Practice for accurate bills.

Kind regards

Jess

Waiver: not all of these things have happened with Npower as a supplier but I am fairly sure they will.

You may have slightly missed the point Jess.

I have done the load test several times but it doesn't always make a difference. The official meter reader has never got it right and Customer Services are not that much better.

When dealing with any firm I take the attitude that if I have to contact Customer Services then something has gone wrong. If I learn their name then something has gone seriously wrong. If I am on hold for 15 minutes and repeatedly told that my call is important to them it says something about the veracity of that firm.

I have said this to other utility firms before now. The basics are that you provide a service and I pay you money. Please explain why I have to keep phoning you and writing to you.

Yes, I am generalising a bit here but as far as Npower are concerned I have already spoken with Customer Services, already had back to front meters and already done a load test so I can see where this is going.

Squire_Fulwood · 18 June 2018 at 8:52PM

House_Martin wrote: »

That will not always work Jess. Old analogue 24 hour timer switches can easily have their night rate coming on at any time in the 24 hrs, day or night. The cheap rate 7 hrs could well be coming on slap bang in the middle of the day. Older digital meters with built in clocks can be drifting at least 5 hrs now they have been in over 10 years making night rate in action at noon. These will be the older Ampy digital meters with a button to scroll through the readings and the time of its built in clock.
I have been in meter rooms with over 60 eco 7 meters in it and nearly every one was coming onto the day rate well away from the published times. From 8.30 in the summer months up to 12.30 pm these eco 7 s would switching over from night rate to day rate. The only way with a digital clock like these is to check the clock itself and if it is showing before 7.30 am (GMT ) then the meter is displaying night rate.
These types of meters default to displaying the reading which is currently active, so a meter reader or customer needs to see what time the meter thinks it is before making a decision which rate is which.
With older analogue meters with two readings there is a little window in the top right hand corner with an arrow pointing to either day or night indicating which rate is active, be it day or night.

Thank you House Martin. This brings back a memory which is not quite on topic but it explains something.

The contactor box makes a loud clack when it switches tariff and a red light indicates that rate 1 is being applied.

There were a couple of years when the loud clack went off at any time of the day and night so I tried to find someone who knew what times it should be switching and at that time I couldn't find anyone that did.

My point is that eventually it got better on its own so how is that the fault of the meter. I still have the same meter which is digital with one display and a button for displaying one tariff or the other when pressed. These days it always switches at the right time.

I have often wondered what happened to customers bills at that time. I suppose we will never know.

As I said, that anecdote is not really relevant to the current topic but just to say that it might not always be the meter that is at fault.

doubleug · 19 June 2018 at 10:05AM

Suppliers always set new tariffs at a low price to attract customers. It is almost impossible for an energy company to guarantee a same direct debit price to last the duration of the tariff, due to variable usage( the weather, the seasons etc) thus any NEW negotiation will have to take into account underpayments (spread over a forthcoming year), predicted usage( spread--regardless of season equally over 12 months), price increase( very difficult to estimate) and of course anomalies such as rare weather events, use of storage heaters, portable radiators etc, ....

The thing that really gets me is the pure number of stupid tariff names that every company seems to have--anything up to a hundred! --two is all that is necessary-one is called gas and the other is called electricity.Just like petrol--you see the price and pay if you can afford--or go elsewhere and try and find cheaper!

Squire_Fulwood · 19 June 2018 at 10:43AM

doubleug wrote: »

Suppliers always set new tariffs at a low price to attract customers. It is almost impossible for an energy company to guarantee a same direct debit price to last the duration of the tariff, due to variable usage( the weather, the seasons etc) thus any NEW negotiation will have to take into account underpayments (spread over a forthcoming year), predicted usage( spread--regardless of season equally over 12 months), price increase( very difficult to estimate) and of course anomalies such as rare weather events, use of storage heaters, portable radiators etc, ....

The thing that really gets me is the pure number of stupid tariff names that every company seems to have--anything up to a hundred! --two is all that is necessary-one is called gas and the other is called electricity.Just like petrol--you see the price and pay if you can afford--or go elsewhere and try and find cheaper!

Yes of course. I was not surprised by the low initial estimate and I enjoyed it until the honeymoon period ran out and they set the Direct Debit figure to reclaim the debt. I have no problem with that.

What I do have problems with is that they seem to reclaiming it twice. Raising my Direct Debit from £121 to £193 should have been more than adequate but their forecast of upcoming usage is a bit eye watering as well.

Last January according to actual meter readings I used £192.30 (remember my usage drops dramatically in the summer since the storage heaters are turned off, about £60 a month).

They predict that next December I will use £281.45 without any change to the heating equipment. Of course it should all stabilise one day but due to their "light touch" I don't expect it to be soon.

Npower and economy 7

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