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Taken to court by UK Parking Control Ltd
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It's good to see it but your priority is to read the NEWBIES thread section on WS and evidence and put your own together NOW, to be delivered by hand to the local court, ideally by tomorrow... (and emailed to the claimant's Solicitors).
I did also show you another link, to Johersh's advice about late WS! Read it.
No, it's not too late. Read what I posted for you...PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Where is their contract? Have they included one?
You can see at #2 that they is no direct link to the landowners.0 -
Seriously, I told you to READ the newbeis thread, yet you still didnt know you needed your own WS?
If you ask for advice take it!0 -
Just to point out that your full car registration is in one of those photos, You should edit or delete it.0
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Went to court today - the judge never let the case start as my witness statement was late. He forced me to apply for an application for relief from sanction. I'm not sure what this is but I'll research today and it needs to be in for next Thursday. If it's accepted, then my evidence will be accepted, otherwise I need to fight the case without my witness statement.
In other news, my friend had a very similar case to me as he parked in the same locations. He was told to pay 3 fines but let off one because it was given outside of operating hours - this was my main argument if I got to speak.
They provided a contract stating their operating hours are 7am-7pm and every single one of my fines is after 7pm. I have attached this to this post. I think this is a silver bullet as they have operating hours of 7-7 and are not legally contracted to issue or enforce tickets after this time.
Furthermore, they have signage outside stating "no unauthorised parking during operating hours". This implies you can park outside of operating hours.
5 min before walking into court, they conveniently mentioned that they have proof from UKPC that they're allowed to manage the site after 7pm ... but still have no contract, just some email they've made up today. This goes against BPA code of practice 7.3:
7 Written authorisation of the landowner
7.3 a the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined by any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation
They can't have a contract that stated 7-7, be going against the BPA code and have a sign outside that says no unauthorised parking during operating hours and still get away with it right? One stupid email from 2018 after the fines in 2016 and the contract creation in 2012 can't be valid right?
Also, this contract is part of their evidence, so I don't even need my own really...
I rang their solicitor up and they intend to get this evidence (the email) put into the case but I asked the judge on purpose in front of the UKPC legal representative if they're allowed to enter new evidence and he said no. How do they plan to do this?
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Sounds like you could win even without making an application for relief from sanctions.
I wonder what our legally-qualified posters Johnersh, LoadsofChildren123, IamEmanresu or bargepole would advise, given the lottery of having it granted:
http://www.stjohnschambers.co.uk/dashboard/wp-content/uploads/Relief-from-Sanction.pdf
Great, you win, surely, and they cannot add that email to evidence or they'd need relief from sanctions!They provided a contract stating their operating hours are 7am-7pm and every single one of my fines is after 7pm. I have attached this to this post. I think this is a silver bullet as they have operating hours of 7-7 and are not legally contracted to issue or enforce tickets after this time.
Furthermore, they have signage outside stating "no unauthorised parking during operating hours". This implies you can park outside of operating hours.
Not only that, read the email...it says vaguely ''the contract evolved'' but it does NOT say when! Could have been yesterday...
I am astonished that the stupid Judge said that your friend had to pay 3 PCNs that are clearly all about TRESPASS, according to the sign.
Unless they own or lease the land, giving them standing, parking firms cannot seek damages for trespass. It is trite law and was reiterated in the Beavis case!PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Have to say this one looks lost for the simple reason the OP hasn't done the work and is relying on a template they either don't understand or more likely cannot be bothered to understand.
On the positive side, it will lead to a better if somewhat expensive lesson in doing research. Ironic since this was close to a Uni library.
The issue with this contract and most UKPC contracts is the chain of authority. Parking Partners and UKPC are not landowners. Parking Partners may be occupiers but you would have had to have checked that as instructed back in April - but it wasn't done. "Likely" as you mentioned before doesn't cut it.
Suspect the judge has chosen the option to reject your WS (he could have accepted it) as he can't be arsed with the nonsense within and has applied Denton. There is a fee to be paid depending on whether it will be a paper application or a verbal one. If you are on benefits, the fee will be lower.
On balance you should NOT apply for relief and let matters take their course. BW have to do something now if they they want a clean win but let's see if they do. When you have a new date come back and we'll look at the facts again.0 -
IamEmanresu wrote: »Have to say this one looks lost for the simple reason the OP hasn't done the work and is relying on a template they either don't understand or more likely cannot be bothered to understand.
On the positive side, it will lead to a better if somewhat expensive lesson in doing research. Ironic since this was close to a Uni library.
The issue with this contract and most UKPC contracts is the chain of authority. Parking Partners and UKPC are not landowners. Parking Partners may be occupiers but you would have had to have checked that as instructed back in April - but it wasn't done. "Likely" as you mentioned before doesn't cut it.
Suspect the judge has chosen the option to reject your WS (he could have accepted it) as he can't be arsed with the nonsense within and has applied Denton. There is a fee to be paid depending on whether it will be a paper application or a verbal one. If you are on benefits, the fee will be lower.
On balance you should NOT apply for relief and let matters take their course. BW have to do something now if they they want a clean win but let's see if they do. When you have a new date come back and we'll look at the facts again.
I was working 17-18 hour days up until late September so didn't really focus on my parking fines - not an excuse but I was was just prioritising that.
Which template are you referring to? I focused my WS on a few things:
- Tresspass case that Judge Ellington did
- Poor entrance signage
- Conflicting signage outside and inside (says no unauthorised parking during operating hours outside and no unauthorised parking at any time inside)
- Operating hours (based off their evidence)
- Broken signage
All of this was in my WS but it wasn't accepted.
Tbh, I think I can win based purely off operating hours and a family lawyer also told me to cite my friend's case as precedent (should I?).
I have a few questions:
- Why do you feel the case is lost? if this is the case, would it not be better for me to settle now?
- So you think my application for relief from sanction will not be accepted?
- If I just ignore the Judges demand of submitting this by 4pm next week... what will happen?
- I asked the Judge if they could enter new evidence (the email) and he said no. Afterwards the lawyer told me they could find a way to do this without relief from sanctions ....how?
- Can I use the contract in their WS as my defence in court as not having a WS would mean I can't rely on anything else?
So essentially, my whole argument would be to tell the judge to look at their contract which clearly states they are not contracted to issue or enforce tickets tickets given after 7pm.0 -
Coupon-mad wrote: »Sounds like you could win even without making an application for relief from sanctions.
I wonder what our legally-qualified posters Johnersh, LoadsofChildren123, IamEmanresu or bargepole would advise, given the lottery of having it granted:
http://www.stjohnschambers.co.uk/dashboard/wp-content/uploads/Relief-from-Sanction.pdf
Great, you win, surely, and they cannot add that email to evidence or they'd need relief from sanctions!
Not only that, read the email...it says vaguely ''the contract evolved'' but it does NOT say when! Could have been yesterday...
I am astonished that the stupid Judge said that your friend had to pay 3 PCNs that are clearly all about TRESPASS, according to the sign.
Unless they own or lease the land, giving them standing, parking firms cannot seek damages for trespass. It is trite law and was reiterated in the Beavis case!
Thanks - I think the operating hours thing is a very strong point.
If you are only contracted between yourself and the landlord to operate between the hours of 7-7, then you have no legal right to ticket people after that time. It's essentially the same as me putting random tickets on people's cars and expecting them to pay.
My issue is missed these deadlines and now I for the life of me can't figure out how to approach the case moving forwards - and google doesn't seem to informative on this application for relief from sanctions stuff and the court staff and free charities for legal procedure are useless.0 -
Tbh, I think I can win based purely off operating hours and a family lawyer also told me to cite my friend's case as precedent (should I?).I asked the Judge if they could enter new evidence (the email) and he said no. Afterwards the lawyer told me they could find a way to do this without relief from sanctions ....how?
As it stands, the only argument you have is that their contract is time specific which is what the other judge used.
They could try to send in new letter which shows that the contract as drafted was not what the client intended but they can't do that if you are not allowed (Denton) to introduce your WS. So IMHO it would be better not to apply as it opens the gates for them. Have the matter decided on the papers in front of the judge (theirs) and reject any attempt from them to "fix" the error in their contract.
With UKPC it is always the contract. For some reason, they don't appear able to draft these properly.0
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