Gross misconduct allegation issue
florincmf
Posts: 44 Forumite
Good evening,
This is a long story but I will try to briefly explain everything and if someone can help (please do) I will answer to any questions
I am facing one allegation of Gross Misconducts for "a serious breach of trust and confidence with the company", more precisely allegedly trying to influence from my position what people should write in their statements in regards to a disciplinary case in which it was involved my father.
Now the grievance was forwarded by my Assistant implying that I am collecting statements. My boss is covering him for some reason (I blame them being racists). I got suspended because of this allegation, they dismissed my father and now I had a Fact Finding today. I did not ask anyone to write a statement for my father or went to someone and discussed the case. There were in total 12 statements my father collected but no one can say that I influenced them because I did not. Now my boss has a loyal person who claimed that I called him and asked for a statement for my father despite of him not passing any statements to anyone or anything.
Now at the Fact Finding who my boss arranged with someone he trusts from ER, the person who did the Fact-finding said that for now no evidence can be passed to me in regards to the allegations made but I have to answer to some questions.
The questions were silly most of them as my Assistant claimed that I threatened to sue the company over defamation or that I will put 15 men to destroy the life of 2 employees who got my father into a disciplinary.
Now I have to wait for what they do next as my last day of suspension is tomorrow. They told me that they will be in touch by tomorrow if this goes to disciplinary or not.
This period has been extremely stressful for me as my father lost his job and he went through a 3 weeks process of Fact Findings and Disciplinary. Tomorrow I have to see my GP as before I experienced stress related to work.
It is worth mentioning that I have proofs of the fact that my Assistant got appointed by my boss without him applying for a job or being scheduled for an interview. My boss pulled the ropes for him and now they went against me because I know that.
If you lasted that long, THANK YOU, and here comes my question:
Will it be advisable to go on sick and try to organise myself with all the evidence I have (email, statements) and get a solicitor, knowing that they will do whatever it takes to go against me?
(Bare in mind that the people involved, the person from ER, my boss, my assistant, my boss's loyal guy and this person who Fact Find me cover each other)
Thank you for your time and help
This is a long story but I will try to briefly explain everything and if someone can help (please do) I will answer to any questions
I am facing one allegation of Gross Misconducts for "a serious breach of trust and confidence with the company", more precisely allegedly trying to influence from my position what people should write in their statements in regards to a disciplinary case in which it was involved my father.
Now the grievance was forwarded by my Assistant implying that I am collecting statements. My boss is covering him for some reason (I blame them being racists). I got suspended because of this allegation, they dismissed my father and now I had a Fact Finding today. I did not ask anyone to write a statement for my father or went to someone and discussed the case. There were in total 12 statements my father collected but no one can say that I influenced them because I did not. Now my boss has a loyal person who claimed that I called him and asked for a statement for my father despite of him not passing any statements to anyone or anything.
Now at the Fact Finding who my boss arranged with someone he trusts from ER, the person who did the Fact-finding said that for now no evidence can be passed to me in regards to the allegations made but I have to answer to some questions.
The questions were silly most of them as my Assistant claimed that I threatened to sue the company over defamation or that I will put 15 men to destroy the life of 2 employees who got my father into a disciplinary.
Now I have to wait for what they do next as my last day of suspension is tomorrow. They told me that they will be in touch by tomorrow if this goes to disciplinary or not.
This period has been extremely stressful for me as my father lost his job and he went through a 3 weeks process of Fact Findings and Disciplinary. Tomorrow I have to see my GP as before I experienced stress related to work.
It is worth mentioning that I have proofs of the fact that my Assistant got appointed by my boss without him applying for a job or being scheduled for an interview. My boss pulled the ropes for him and now they went against me because I know that.
If you lasted that long, THANK YOU, and here comes my question:
Will it be advisable to go on sick and try to organise myself with all the evidence I have (email, statements) and get a solicitor, knowing that they will do whatever it takes to go against me?
(Bare in mind that the people involved, the person from ER, my boss, my assistant, my boss's loyal guy and this person who Fact Find me cover each other)
Thank you for your time and help
0
Comments
-
No real advice other than to say that to start calling them racists isn't going to do you any favours.0
-
How long have you been with the company? Throwing around allegations of racism, or claiming that all the other staff are covering for each other won't do you any favours either.0
-
"(I blame them being racists)"
That is not going to help your case in anyway unless you have evidence.
If you believe you have a genuine case then you need evidence and details to support your side of any argument.
You seem to think that everyone is against you, including HR (ER?)
You need to exhaust the company processes before you think of taking it further.
Make sure you have a copy of the disciplinary and appeals procedures.
Did your father appeal his dismissal?Things that are differerent: draw & drawer, brought & bought, loose & lose, dose & does, payed & paid0 -
Good evening,
This is a long story but I will try to briefly explain everything and if someone can help (please do) I will answer to any questions
I am facing one allegation of Gross Misconducts for "a serious breach of trust and confidence with the company", more precisely allegedly trying to influence from my position what people should write in their statements in regards to a disciplinary case in which it was involved my father.
Now the grievance was forwarded by my Assistant implying that I am collecting statements. My boss is covering him for some reason (I blame them being racists). I got suspended because of this allegation, they dismissed my father and now I had a Fact Finding today. I did not ask anyone to write a statement for my father or went to someone and discussed the case. There were in total 12 statements my father collected but no one can say that I influenced them because I did not. Now my boss has a loyal person who claimed that I called him and asked for a statement for my father despite of him not passing any statements to anyone or anything.
Now at the Fact Finding who my boss arranged with someone he trusts from ER, the person who did the Fact-finding said that for now no evidence can be passed to me in regards to the allegations made but I have to answer to some questions.
The questions were silly most of them as my Assistant claimed that I threatened to sue the company over defamation or that I will put 15 men to destroy the life of 2 employees who got my father into a disciplinary.
Now I have to wait for what they do next as my last day of suspension is tomorrow. They told me that they will be in touch by tomorrow if this goes to disciplinary or not.
This period has been extremely stressful for me as my father lost his job and he went through a 3 weeks process of Fact Findings and Disciplinary. Tomorrow I have to see my GP as before I experienced stress related to work.
It is worth mentioning that I have proofs of the fact that my Assistant got appointed by my boss without him applying for a job or being scheduled for an interview. My boss pulled the ropes for him and now they went against me because I know that.
If you lasted that long, THANK YOU, and here comes my question:
Will it be advisable to go on sick and try to organise myself with all the evidence I have (email, statements) and get a solicitor, knowing that they will do whatever it takes to go against me?
(Bare in mind that the people involved, the person from ER, my boss, my assistant, my boss's loyal guy and this person who Fact Find me cover each other)
Thank you for your time and help
You need to take a very big step backwards and not take a scatter gun approach to what's going. You are emotionally involved in a number of disparate things which will cloud your judgment and how to manage what's going on.
Making accusations about your assistant's appointment is NOTHING to do with your disciplinary and makes you seem desperate and bitter.
You need to focus on your disciplinary, as mentioned above start with the official policy and ensure you know it inside out and better than your manager/ investigating manager. let them make mistakes.
From your post, the essence of the allegation is that someone has alleged you tried to influence people's statements concerning your father. You deny this and say there is no evidence but your employer has at least one statement saying it happened and others may say it too even if it is untrue - in which case it will be a case of who is to be believed more. One tactic may be to demonstrate that the accuser was confused and misheard whatever was alleged - that provides a face saving route should management need one.
If, however, you already believe that management will do whatever it takes to get rid of you, then you might want to employ a different set of tactics, as you will have already accepted that you will be losing your job. If you are going to now raise racism, having never mentioned it before to your bosses, that is very unlikely to end well. If you have proof of racism (emails, jokey xmas gifts, different treatment of others in same position as yourself) then that would form part of a separate grievance you should raise.Originally Posted by shortcrust
"Contact the Ministry of Fairness....If sufficient evidence of unfairness is discovered you’ll get an apology, a permanent contract with backdated benefits, a ‘Let’s Make it Fair!’ tshirt and mug, and those guilty of unfairness will be sent on a Fairness Awareness course."0 -
Good evening,
This is a long story but I will try to briefly explain everything and if someone can help (please do) I will answer to any questions
I am facing one allegation of Gross Misconducts for "a serious breach of trust and confidence with the company", more precisely allegedly trying to influence from my position what people should write in their statements in regards to a disciplinary case in which it was involved my father.
Now the grievance was forwarded by my Assistant implying that I am collecting statements. My boss is covering him for some reason (I blame them being racists). I got suspended because of this allegation, they dismissed my father and now I had a Fact Finding today. I did not ask anyone to write a statement for my father or went to someone and discussed the case. There were in total 12 statements my father collected but no one can say that I influenced them because I did not. Now my boss has a loyal person who claimed that I called him and asked for a statement for my father despite of him not passing any statements to anyone or anything.
I find two things strange:
1. You knew how many (12) statements that your father collected. You had obviously discussed it with your father because that number is just so precise. Though, to be fair, this could all be in hindsight.
2. A total of 12 statements is an unusually large amount. It sort of strikes me as being more of a sort of petition here (ie someone went round and asked people for their support).... Which wouldn't make the allegation against you as far-fetched. In contrast, an employer sacking an employee despite 12 statements of support existing is a bit more far-fetched.
I would not immediately rule out the possibility that SOMEONE did in fact ring the "loyal person" you mention.
Well, out of the blue earlier you did say "I blame them being racists" which sort of suggests that the behaviour cited may not be completely out of your scope. Genuine apology if you HAVE been discriminated against, but there is literally NOTHING ELSE in your post to suggest this is the case (one would assume that a victim of racism would throw some examples of racism to make their point clear).The questions were silly most of them as my Assistant claimed that I threatened to sue the company over defamation or that I will put 15 men to destroy the life of 2 employees who got my father into a disciplinary.
Nothing wrong with that. Would explain why your boss is siding with this person though....It is worth mentioning that I have proofs of the fact that my Assistant got appointed by my boss without him applying for a job or being scheduled for an interview. My boss pulled the ropes for him and now they went against me because I know that.Will it be advisable to go on sick and try to organise myself with all the evidence I have (email, statements) and get a solicitor, knowing that they will do whatever it takes to go against me?
(Bare in mind that the people involved, the person from ER, my boss, my assistant, my boss's loyal guy and this person who Fact Find me cover each other)
Thank you for your time and help
1. If you are sick then go on the sick. If you AREN'T sick then don't go on the sick. If you are unsure, or need more info, then speak to your GP and maybe look online (NHS). That's the simple one.
2. Feel free to go for a solicitor if you so wish. There are generally two types; ones you pay for and "no win no fee" ones. You'll be lucky to find a "no win no fee" one to take your case on, partially because of the low payout (they'll want a cut, roughly 25%?) and partially because of your low chances of any reasonable outcome. The paid-for ones will probably smile with glee and accept your money/case.
3. Also maybe speak to ACAS and, if you are a member, your Union. Can also potentially speak to CAB, though not sure how much help they offer. Such advice is generally free, but sometimes slightly limited.
Personally, I prefer your employer's version to your own and in that respect I feel a grovelling apology (or something similar, unless more info comes to light) may be the best strategy to keep your job. But that's just a random internet user having a guess, so don't take it as gospel etc.0 -
You need to take a very big step backwards and not take a scatter gun approach to what's going. You are emotionally involved in a number of disparate things which will cloud your judgment and how to manage what's going on.
Making accusations about your assistant's appointment is NOTHING to do with your disciplinary and makes you seem desperate and bitter.
You need to focus on your disciplinary, as mentioned above start with the official policy and ensure you know it inside out and better than your manager/ investigating manager. let them make mistakes.
From your post, the essence of the allegation is that someone has alleged you tried to influence people's statements concerning your father. You deny this and say there is no evidence but your employer has at least one statement saying it happened and others may say it too even if it is untrue - in which case it will be a case of who is to be believed more. One tactic may be to demonstrate that the accuser was confused and misheard whatever was alleged - that provides a face saving route should management need one.
If, however, you already believe that management will do whatever it takes to get rid of you, then you might want to employ a different set of tactics, as you will have already accepted that you will be losing your job. If you are going to now raise racism, having never mentioned it before to your bosses, that is very unlikely to end well. If you have proof of racism (emails, jokey xmas gifts, different treatment of others in same position as yourself) then that would form part of a separate grievance you should raise.
Hi and thank you for your complex reply!
You are right, my judgement is clouded because these last 5 weeks have been a nightmare for me, lack of sleep, not eating properly and health issues.
My Assistant is directly involved as he called HR and someone came to speak with him and he raised concerns in regards to how the statements were collecting saying that I using my position to convince people to write statements and the following day I got suspended. I asked based on which evidences and they said they can not tell me.
Now when the incident which concerns my father happened, he suspended him and then wrote a statement for the victim and she signed and she mentioned that he wrote it for her but in his statement he never mentioned this.
Another statement taken that day from a witness was influenced by him because he told her what words to use in order to "make more sense".
Now this person said after she wrote it that she is not sure and she wants to look again but he said it is too late and refused to pass it back to her. Later on she reported this in a statement saying she does not appreciate the way he was influenced. Now the Assistant found out about her statement through my boss and the Assistant went to her and told her "I know you went against me and I can get in trouble" this was witnessed by another colleague.
Now when 2 fact-finding managers came on site to do fact-finding for everyone involved he (The Assistant) talked to one key witness before telling her what to say by using "make sure you mention x and y". She later on reported to me how she was trying to manipulate what she was about to say. She made a statement about this which I have.
I was thinking of racism here because my boss called me stating that this conversation never happened and said that he will choose people of his own to handle this like a warning.
Once again I appreciate your help and it made me think twice before deciding0 -
Now when the incident which concerns my father happened, he suspended him and then wrote a statement for the victim and she signed and she mentioned that he wrote it for her but in his statement he never mentioned this.
Another statement taken that day from a witness was influenced by him because he told her what words to use in order to "make more sense".
Now this person said after she wrote it that she is not sure and she wants to look again but he said it is too late and refused to pass it back to her. Later on she reported this in a statement saying she does not appreciate the way he was influenced. Now the Assistant found out about her statement through my boss and the Assistant went to her and told her "I know you went against me and I can get in trouble" this was witnessed by another colleague.
Now when 2 fact-finding managers came on site to do fact-finding for everyone involved he (The Assistant) talked to one key witness before telling her what to say by using "make sure you mention x and y". She later on reported to me how she was trying to manipulate what she was about to say. She made a statement about this which I have.
All of the above may or may not have happened, but one thing is key: it is irrelevant to your own disciplinary. Do not muddy the waters by mentioning any of that. You need to concentrate on what is being alleged against you, and how you can refute that exact allegation.:heartpuls Mrs Marleyboy :heartpuls
MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote
Proud Parents to an Aut-some son 0 -
I was thinking of the apology but I know they are too keen on getting rid of me. All started with me putting grievance against someone who was a good friend with my boss. Since then every single stepped I made was being watched.
Now I am on a suspension and my Assistant is trying to pull the ropes to make people say that I went to them to write the statements. Now I know for sure that the person who passed the statements was questioned about how my father got them and he admitted he collected them and passed them to him. The same person and another one were asked if I did tell them to write statements and they both said no and then asked if they were influenced by me to write those statements and they said no, basically they spoken the truth.
What I have now is a grievance against my boss for forcing me to hire someone against the policy (I have the email of talking with HR and agreeing on 3 candidates and a day before my boss brought someone else saying he will take the job. Now I wanted a different candidate but he said that she has kids and it will be difficult to be available)
This person was appointed my Assistant.
Now I have the following things against my Assistant too
-In a fact finding (my father's fact finding) one witness said that the Assistant wrote the statement for her. (he never mentioned this)
- Another statement from a second witness saying that she was influenced and refused to have a second look at her statement (This person was later on threatened by the assistant as he knew about a statement which was supposed to be private and confiendtial)
-A third person who gave me a statement saying that she was called in the office before a fact finding and told what to mention and she states that she felt manipulated
Now in regards to my boss and my assistant these will be 2 different grievance cases but the person dealing with my case from ER is good friend with my boss. My boss was supposed to call me but this person from ER made the call stating that my boss is on holiday and he is doing him a favor by calling me. They made me aware of how well this is stiched.
Thank you for your answer, it is much appreciated!0 -
Tigsteroonie wrote: »All of the above may or may not have happened, but one thing is key: it is irrelevant to your own disciplinary. Do not muddy the waters by mentioning any of that. You need to concentrate on what is being alleged against you, and how you can refute that exact allegation.
Thank you!
@Tigsteroonie
Will it be advisable to keep that in a grievance case afterwards you think. I have pieces of evidence for everything I stated and If I got suspended for the alleging influencing statements and being involved in a disciplinary case, my assistant should get the same punishment, although nothing happened despite of them knowing he wrote a statement and influenced another one.0 -
Personally I would hold off any grievance whilst your investigation, and any subsequent disciplinary hearing, is ongoing. Whilst everything should be considered as a separate matter, it's not going to improve your situation to launch a counter-grievance at this point. But I am not a specialist in these matters.
Are you in a union at all? If so, are you consulting them?:heartpuls Mrs Marleyboy :heartpuls
MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote Proud Parents to an Aut-some son 0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343.1K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.7K Spending & Discounts
- 235.2K Work, Benefits & Business
- 607.9K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173K Life & Family
- 247.8K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards