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    • sleepyshell
    • By sleepyshell 11th Apr 18, 7:37 AM
    • 33Posts
    • 18Thanks
    sleepyshell
    Redundancy (only person) and notice - can I negotiate?
    • #1
    • 11th Apr 18, 7:37 AM
    Redundancy (only person) and notice - can I negotiate? 11th Apr 18 at 7:37 AM
    Hi

    Sorry, I realise it's long but struggling to reduce.

    My role (based in England) is at risk of redundancy as they plan to move the role to Northern Ireland where the rest of the team are based at head office. I am the only person in my type of role based outside of NI. I understand the reason for the move, but am not happy about their expectations/treatment of me. Although, all perfectly legal.

    I've been there 12 years (will be 13 at proposed termination date). Had the first consultation meeting on Monday. I've no argument against it, bar a few minor points I raised. Therefore, my focus for questions were based on the future surrounding PILON and then what happens if I want to leave early if I find another job as I only have to give them 1 months notice.

    Pretty much every person who has left in recent years via a company decision basically disappeared the same day. Because I have 12 years of knowledge that they need to gain from me, I am required to work the 12 weeks notice to enable a smooth handover to my replacement. In some situations you would be glad to have an extra 12 weeks work and pay, however in this situation I feel that the only beneficiary of making me stay the 12 weeks is them. The notice they have to give me benefits them and not me which is pants!

    I feel that they are taking advantage of the fact that I am a conscientious and hard worker and know I would not do anything malicious to the systems, etc. My years of service, unpaid overtime, management of key projects, regular trips to NI arriving home late, etc are all for nothing and they just want want want. I just feel really angry.......unfortunately when I'm angry I cry so then people think I'm upset, which I am also but more over treatment than actually losing my job.

    As it's only me going through this process it is a bit of a lonely place. I've spoken to two colleagues about it. One has suggested that I look to take legal advice and negotiate redundancy/notice terms. I can see her point, but with research and some prior knowledge of this process, they are acting within the law but perhaps not ethically as everything is with their interests in mind and not mine.

    I've got another meeting on Monday, and I'm considering writing a statement (a sort of counter offer) to say that given xyz that I've done in the past and how stressful and detrimental this is to my health that I propose to give them 6 weeks where I will handover as much as possible but for them to pay the remaining 6 weeks as PILON. No idea if I can really do this (some research for the weekend I think).

    If anyone wants to provide any advice on whether I could negitiate the notice/final pay then please do. Although, it was nice to just get it out....minus some swearing and a really big rant which I might do on a word document later for therapy!!


    On a positive note, I am meeting a recruitment agency on Friday and he is already going to take my CV to a company he is recruiting for on Thursday (local to me which would save me nearly 2 hours travelling everyday). I am more than willing to resign as soon as I find a new role.


    Thanks for reading
Page 1
    • marlot
    • By marlot 11th Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    • 3,369 Posts
    • 2,497 Thanks
    marlot
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    Sorry to hear your news. I was in a similar position a few year ago. I managed to find that they'd not followed the right procedure and got an extra month out of it. There's nothing in what you say that makes me think you're being asked to do anything untoward - maybe someone else can spot something.

    Don't simply resign if/when you find a new job - get some advice first on 'counter notice'.

    You are entitled to time off for interviews and/or training. I would encourage you to use it. I believe its up to two days a week (average).
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 11th Apr 18, 3:58 PM
    • 3,521 Posts
    • 8,729 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 18, 3:58 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 18, 3:58 PM
    My take on it would be that it would be sod's law for you to offer, and then for them to accept, a 6 week notice period and then you find yourself unemployed.
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


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    • sleepyshell
    • By sleepyshell 11th Apr 18, 6:23 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    sleepyshell
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:23 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:23 PM
    Thanks for the replies. I think in this situation you're almost damned if you do and damned if you don't.....or whatever the saying is!

    So, rather than wait until the next meeting on Monday we had a call today. Which was fine without any notice, as I'm working from home and would've asked to delay if I need some thinking space. It was almost easier by phone.

    Anyhow, they've had a conversation following Monday's meeting as I think they have realised that I wasn't happy. They need me to handover a lot of information and I think they're worried I might just walk or go off sick when they really need my focused and helpful.

    They are now going to prepare a settlement agreement to go above and beyond their legal requirement. So, I'd work 8 weeks, PILON for the remaining 4 of the notice period and then 8 weeks ex gratia payment. This makes me feel a bit better about it all, although I still wonder if I get offered a new job if I can leave with just my 4 weeks notice. I guess I'll find that out on the offer and discuss with my solicitor (when I find one tomorrow as I've only ever needed one for house purchases before). I wouldn't want to jeopardise a potential future job if a new company won't wait the 8 weeks for me if this overrules my one month notice though. Guess I'll see what the paperwork says when if comes. I suppose I don't have to sign it.
    • tizerbelle
    • By tizerbelle 11th Apr 18, 6:39 PM
    • 1,478 Posts
    • 3,154 Thanks
    tizerbelle
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:39 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:39 PM
    Is the 8 weeks ex-gratia in addition to your statutory redundancy pay? Or instead of - if instead of have you calculated your statutory entitlement to ensure you're getting more?
    You are entitled to 12 weeks notice of redundancy (can be worked or PILON) plus statutory redundancy pay.
    https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/redundancy-pay
    • sleepyshell
    • By sleepyshell 11th Apr 18, 6:45 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    sleepyshell
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:45 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:45 PM
    The ex-gratia was verbally said to be as well as stat redundancy. Otherwise this would be less than the redundancy. I'm sure some companies try to do one or the other though and there are probably people who don't notice. I'll be making sure I read everything thoroughly and not just relying on a solicitor.
    • Sparx
    • By Sparx 11th Apr 18, 10:58 PM
    • 877 Posts
    • 478 Thanks
    Sparx
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:58 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:58 PM
    I would negotiate hard if they want you to play ball with the handover and extract the knowledge from your head...

    One of my previous employers I went through redundancy with, I didn't even need to ask they straight up offered me double statutory for my service length, plus 10% of my salary if I stayed for the 3 months and handover.

    Then also managed to get a nice few bob on top, as they went on the stock market just before my departure.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Apr 18, 8:48 AM
    • 31,903 Posts
    • 19,123 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:48 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:48 AM
    You have 12 weeks statutory notice.

    You need to read up on "counter notice" if you want to leave within that period earlier than the company wants to terminate the contract.

    Just resigning with your 4 weeks notice can jeopardise any redundancy payment, although some companies are flexible/accommodating.

    What my old company did was always give Full PILON on top of redundancy(enhanced) there was a negotiated strategy for handover and termination dates that both sides were happy with.

    Most people worked out their own handover schedules and cooperated as word gets round if you mess people about(networking was big in the sector) many were flexible enough to stay longer if needed and were still looking

    That's kind of what they are offering but using notice to make the 8 weeks extra part of the redundancy so tax free(if you don't go over 30k).

    The negotiations on the actual redundancy are to make the weeks full pay not the cap(if it applies) and then extra like 1.5 or 2 weeks per year.

    Sometimes you have to realise the business needs come before yours and be part of the plan rather than fight it.

    depending on any potential new job situation I would be looking at trying to keep this one going for as long as possible, ie. keep getting paid.

    Something like a min of 8 weeks and then a rolling week by week with one weeks notice by either side, you get a job, the NI become self sufficient.

    This keep the networking options open to try to get referred to the places through all you existing contact even though you are angry with.

    Another common strategy is to leave say after the 8 weeks and offer consultancy if the job still needs you support.

    Might not be practical but you could consider a curve ball and put relocation to NI on the table.
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