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  • FIRST POST
    • Archergirl
    • By Archergirl 11th Oct 19, 4:35 PM
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    Archergirl
    Flu jab cost to NHS
    • #1
    • 11th Oct 19, 4:35 PM
    Flu jab cost to NHS 11th Oct 19 at 4:35 PM
    Just wondering about this, not moneysaving to us but maybe to the NHS
    Which is more cost effective for the NHS, getting your flu jab at the doctors by a nurse or getting it done at the chemist?
Page 1
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 11th Oct 19, 6:19 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 19, 6:19 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Oct 19, 6:19 PM
    I don't know, but I know my surgery is very keen that those entitled to a free jab should get done by the surgery, not the pharmacy attached to the practice, and I think it's because there's a financial incentive.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: TWO adult cardigans, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees, 2 sets of handwarmers, 1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 3 balaclavas, multiple hats and poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: pink balaclava (for myself), seaman's hat, about to start another cardigan!
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 11th Oct 19, 6:30 PM
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    Carrot007
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 19, 6:30 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Oct 19, 6:30 PM
    If you use your doctors the money is staying in the NHS.


    If you use a pharmacy it is not.


    Either way the cost is the same.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 11th Oct 19, 11:54 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 19, 11:54 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Oct 19, 11:54 PM
    If you use your doctors the money is staying in the NHS.


    If you use a pharmacy it is not.


    Either way the cost is the same.
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    Yes, but ...

    If I get the flu jab from my surgery, the NHS must be paying for the dose, plus the time of those giving the injections, plus (for my surgery) the cost of hiring the church hall for a couple of Saturday mornings.

    If I get the flu jab from my local pharmacy, surely the pharmacy is paying for the doses, and is that within the NHS or not?

    Also - and I could have misunderstood this - when I spoke to my surgery, they suggested there were two different vaccines this year: one for those entitled to the 'free' jabs, and one for the rest of us. Their flu clinics are fully booked, so I was told to ring after they'd finished, to see how many doses they'd got left. I was confused ...

    And since work are willing to pay for me to have a flu jab I shall go elsewhere ...
    Still knitting!
    Completed: TWO adult cardigans, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees, 2 sets of handwarmers, 1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 3 balaclavas, multiple hats and poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: pink balaclava (for myself), seaman's hat, about to start another cardigan!
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 12th Oct 19, 1:03 AM
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    Carrot007
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 19, 1:03 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Oct 19, 1:03 AM
    If I get the flu jab from my surgery, the NHS must be paying for the dose, plus the time of those giving the injections, plus (for my surgery) the cost of hiring the church hall for a couple of Saturday mornings.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue

    ? The dose is paid for either way. The surgery are not goiing to give out paid for ones though. They also both get a fee for it. Would you rather the fee go to the NHS or someone else?


    If the surgery were not making a profit they would not hire the church hall. They are not forced to. Mine just open the surgery on a sat for 2 min appointments, so maybe yours make less. Who knows. I know they like me to get myy prescriptions from them as well (Being in the next village I am allowed, if I was in the same village I would not be allowed, I guess boots made that a requrement of keeping a phharmacy open. But thay cannot dictate on flu jabs.




    If I get the flu jab from my local pharmacy, surely the pharmacy is paying for the doses, and is that within the NHS or not?
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue

    As above, it's m,ore about the money they get for providing the service going back to the NHS or not. Not the initial outlay. Which is also probably subsidised either way. If it was not would your surgery even provide them?




    Also - and I could have misunderstood this - when I spoke to my surgery, they suggested there were two different vaccines this year: one for those entitled to the 'free' jabs, and one for the rest of us. Their flu clinics are fully booked, so I was told to ring after they'd finished, to see how many doses they'd got left. I was confused ...
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue

    There are two different vacs every year. Usually one for young people and one for over 70s (which may have protection against extra strains). Not heard of the free one being different though. Maybe justy confusion becuase most of the free ones go to the "old". Not me though only 44 (but elligable). And yes there are shortages this year and even out usually good docss has said go to a pharmacy if it is easier for you. It's not a crime, it's just better to support the NHS more if possible right?




    And since work are willing to pay for me to have a flu jab I shall go elsewhere ...
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue

    Fair enough. You know what is more convienient for you. But don't be under the impression that you are not taking money (albeit not a lot) out of the NHS system.


    If you get it free you can get it anywhere free. But wheather the fee goes back into the NHS of not is the important bit surely. Much like getting your prescriptions within the NHS rather than out of it. But all things are not possible for all peopla. It can be a lot to do with what your doctors offer and where you are. Such is life.
    • eamon
    • By eamon 13th Oct 19, 1:05 PM
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    eamon
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 19, 1:05 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Oct 19, 1:05 PM
    Getting the flu jab for free at your GP is one the easiest wins that the NHS does, everybody gains. Flu for many people is life threatening. I contracted flu in 2006, bedridden for over a week, off work for a fortnight and a chest infection as a leaving present. So ever since I've opted for the jab as I don't wont to go through that again.
    • jamesd
    • By jamesd 23rd Oct 19, 7:52 PM
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    jamesd
    • #7
    • 23rd Oct 19, 7:52 PM
    • #7
    • 23rd Oct 19, 7:52 PM
    Just wondering about this, not moneysaving to us but maybe to the NHS ... Which is more cost effective for the NHS, getting your flu jab at the doctors by a nurse or getting it done at the chemist?
    Originally posted by Archergirl
    In pure NHS cost just for the shot service, probably the chemist. In overall service delivery probably the GP. Vaccine only costs are on page 3 of the vaccine program update.

    For an adult under 65 whichever place offers the cell-based quadrivalent vaccine instead of the quadrivalent egg-based is likely to be the best choice. Quadrivalent means it protects against four types of flu virus. The new this year choice is grown in mammal cells (QIVc) instead of eggs and because of this difference it adds about 20 percentage points to the effectiveness against flu type A(H3N2). Egg-based (QICe) is less effective for this particular type because it's changed to do better in eggs than against the type in humans, a process called egg adaptation. The various A(H3..) types are currently the most common ones being found in the UK by the national flu monitoring program but this may well change to an A(H1...) type when the main flu season comes along. Cell-based will be used for everyone in this group with an egg allergy. As an individual patient you might as well go for the most effective vaccine. Egg QIVe costs 8.00 or 9.94 depending on brand, cell QIVc 9.94.

    For 65 and over the egg types QIVe for under-65s aren't offered because they aren't effective enough. It's age that makes the under 65 types unsuitable (but better than nothing) because we respond less to vaccines as we get older. The risk is higher in this group overall so getting any of the types is what matters. You're quite likely to be given a trivalent (three types of flu) vaccine that's had adjustments made to get better protection for older people (adjuvanted trivalent, aTIV) but might get a quadrivalent cell-grown one instead. It's currently unclear which is best. As of 17 October around 40% of GP patients in this group had already been vaccinated. Adjuvanted trivalent costs 9.79, QIVc 9.94.

    GPs can get extra payments for advanced services mainly related to getting more people immunised, including letters and texts.

    A GP might divert you from a nurse to a doctor if that seems useful due to some other health factor.

    You can read the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation's Advice on influenza vaccines for 2019/20 or learn more from their minutes.

    For more on flu vaccination in the UK see chapter 19 of the green book.

    Lots of coverage of specific groups but free NHS immunisation is also available to those in regular contact with them can also get it free at their GPs discretion, including:
    • those who are in receipt of a carer’s allowance, or those who are the main carer of an elderly or disabled person whose welfare may be at risk if the carer falls ill. Vaccination should be given on an individual basis at the GP’s discretion in the context of other clinical risk groups in their practice
    • others involved directly in delivering health and social care such that they and vulnerable patients/clients are at increased risk of exposure to influenza
    • health and social care staff directly involved in the care of their patients or clients
    • those living in long-stay residential care homes or other long-stay care facilities where rapid spread is likely to follow introduction of infection and cause high morbidity and mortality (this does not include prisons, young offender institutions, university halls of residence etc.)
    Last edited by jamesd; 25-10-2019 at 9:53 PM. Reason: typo
    • jamesd
    • By jamesd 23rd Oct 19, 8:08 PM
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    jamesd
    • #8
    • 23rd Oct 19, 8:08 PM
    • #8
    • 23rd Oct 19, 8:08 PM
    But wheather the fee goes back into the NHS of not is the important bit surely.
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    The important bit for the NHS is just getting vaccinated. Anywhere. The major NHS gain is from avoiding hospitalisation and GP visits, not keeping vaccination money within NHS institutions vs privately operated businesses like GP surgeries or pharmacies.

    People might want to favour their GP business over a pharmacy business but sometimes a local pharmacy might have a greater need for the extra revenue. And picking the most effective vaccine could matter more for under-65s in risk groups.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 23rd Oct 19, 8:54 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    • #9
    • 23rd Oct 19, 8:54 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Oct 19, 8:54 PM
    Fascinating James! How easy is it to find out which vaccine is offered at eg Superdrug vs Boots? I just ask?
    Still knitting!
    Completed: TWO adult cardigans, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees, 2 sets of handwarmers, 1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 3 balaclavas, multiple hats and poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: pink balaclava (for myself), seaman's hat, about to start another cardigan!
    • jamesd
    • By jamesd 23rd Oct 19, 10:32 PM
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    jamesd
    Ask. My local Boots told me that their national policy for under-65s is QIVe unless someone has an egg allergy, when they will use QIVc.
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 24th Oct 19, 8:15 AM
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    pollypenny
    Very interesting posts, James.
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 28th Oct 19, 10:07 AM
    • 29,772 Posts
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    Davesnave
    All I know is that our health centre does the jabs very efficiently.


    For the past couple of years, I've parked up and the same song has still been playing on the radio when I've returned, it's that quick!
    Things are more like they are right now than they've ever been.




    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 28th Oct 19, 9:34 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    All I know is that our health centre does the jabs very efficiently.


    For the past couple of years, I've parked up and the same song has still been playing on the radio when I've returned, it's that quick!
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    Our surgery is quite efficient, but not quite that good.

    They take over the local church hall and we all sit and wait for a jabber to be free. They jab, and then we are asked to wait nicely for 10 minutes in case we are going to fall over.

    However, we don't have to wait in the hall, because the church is open and serving tea, coffee and cake, which is a far nicer place to wait, and close enough if we fall over.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: TWO adult cardigans, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees, 2 sets of handwarmers, 1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 3 balaclavas, multiple hats and poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: pink balaclava (for myself), seaman's hat, about to start another cardigan!
    • Loanranger
    • By Loanranger 28th Oct 19, 9:40 PM
    • 2,296 Posts
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    Loanranger
    GPs are self employed and so the money is not going back into the NHS. They run their surgeries as businesses.
    I go to Lloyds for mine, no waiting around and parking is not so difficult as it is at the GP surgery.
    • Indout96
    • By Indout96 29th Oct 19, 9:23 AM
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    Indout96
    Getting the flu jab for free at your GP is one the easiest wins that the NHS does, everybody gains.
    Originally posted by eamon

    Our doctors runs a drop in surgery for Flue Jabs. between 1-3 pm mid week
    My chemist (Asda) does them 7 days a week at all opening hours.
    So I lose a days pay (or holiday if any left at this stage of the year) or go to the chemist.
    Why the doctors cannot do an evening or Saturday morning session for those in work is beyond me.
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    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 29th Oct 19, 9:50 AM
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    Davesnave
    Why the doctors cannot do an evening or Saturday morning session for those in work is beyond me.
    Originally posted by Indout96
    All our mass vaccinations here are on Saturdays. I'm off to get my shingles one in an hour, but that's been re-scheduled to suit the nurse, not me!
    Things are more like they are right now than they've ever been.




    • Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • By Blackbeard of Perranporth 29th Oct 19, 9:46 PM
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    Blackbeard of Perranporth
    Just remember that if you get your flu jab at the Pharmacy, you free up up the doctor to do another consultation!
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    • savemoney
    • By savemoney 29th Oct 19, 9:50 PM
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    savemoney
    Dont normally require a doctor for a jab all years I been its a nurse takes all of 5 minutes tops when I go a long line of people go in and out
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 29th Oct 19, 9:59 PM
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    Nick_C
    When I was involved in getting staff immunised at work a few years ago, a private company did the job cheaper than the local Health Trust. Which probably tells you all you need to know about the lack of efficiency in the NHS.
    • calleyw
    • By calleyw 29th Oct 19, 10:23 PM
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    calleyw
    Why the doctors cannot do an evening or Saturday morning session for those in work is beyond me.
    Originally posted by Indout96
    They do at my local dr's. But its a scrum and I wont allow the person I care for to be subjected to the cattle market that it is. No where to park and waiting around with loads of other people. No where to sit. Don't mind for myself but they are disabled. And it causes him too much stress.

    So he books his own appointment to go and see the nurse. At a time that is convenient to him.

    Yours

    Calley x
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