Working out energy bills and direct debits
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National_Numeracy
Posts: 48 Organisation Representative
For money savers, the cost of heating your home is always a hot topic (pun intended). But for those with patchy maths skills, understanding the charges can be a bit of a nightmare.
At National Numeracy we want to help people understand the maths behind the charges, so we thought we'd ask for MSE users' help in explaining the numbers.
So, in that spirit - how would you work out the question below? What aspects of numeracy would you use to arrive at your conclusion?
If you use 11,650 kWh of gas a year, what is a sensible amount for a monthly direct debit?
Gas Tariff:
4.0p per kWh
Standing charge 22p/day
If you don't know where to start and you struggle with working out bills, then the National Numeracy Challenge could help. It's a confidential and informal website, where you can assess your numeracy, learn everyday maths, and work towards getting the Essentials of Numeracy. Register for free here.
Related on MoneySavingExpert: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub
At National Numeracy we want to help people understand the maths behind the charges, so we thought we'd ask for MSE users' help in explaining the numbers.
So, in that spirit - how would you work out the question below? What aspects of numeracy would you use to arrive at your conclusion?
If you use 11,650 kWh of gas a year, what is a sensible amount for a monthly direct debit?
Gas Tariff:
4.0p per kWh
Standing charge 22p/day
If you don't know where to start and you struggle with working out bills, then the National Numeracy Challenge could help. It's a confidential and informal website, where you can assess your numeracy, learn everyday maths, and work towards getting the Essentials of Numeracy. Register for free here.
Related on MoneySavingExpert: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub
Official Organisation Representative
I’m the official organisation rep for National Numeracy. MSE has given permission for me to post letting you know about relevant and useful info. You can see my name on the organisations with permission to post list. If you believe I've broken the Forum Rules please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. This does NOT imply any form of approval of my organisation by MSE
I’m the official organisation rep for National Numeracy. MSE has given permission for me to post letting you know about relevant and useful info. You can see my name on the organisations with permission to post list. If you believe I've broken the Forum Rules please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. This does NOT imply any form of approval of my organisation by MSE
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Comments
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11,650 kwh at 4p/kwh = £466 (multiplication)
365 days at 22p = £80.30 (multiplication)
Annual bill (466+80,30) = £546.30. (addition)
Divide that by 12 to give a monthly DD of £45.525 say £46 a month (division)Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers0 -
If only it was that easy though.
Your gas usage is probably shown in cubic meters. You need to use a conversion factor (constant) and then adjust for the calorific value (variable) before you get to your KWh usage.
I consider myself highly numerate, but estimating the annual cost of gas is far from straightforward. You need good skills as well if you want to do this on a spreadsheet.0 -
matelodave wrote: »11,650 kwh at 4p/kwh = £466 (multiplication)
365 days at 22p = £80.30 (multiplication)
Annual bill (466+80,30) = £546.30. (addition)
Divide that by 12 to give a monthly DD of £45.525 say £46 a month (division)
I don't normally make 'me too' posts, but that's how I'd calculate it too.
It's when you are trying to get from Volume of gas to monthly charge via kWh that things get... interesting.
Edit: Nick_C beat me to it, that'll teach me not to refresh before posting.
If I were planning ahead, I think I'd assume a flat CV of 40 as a slight overestimate compared to the average in my region.
I actually have such a spreadsheet here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LsLIrx-lkdJ0FOrg3tSn2RB6a8k9_WUKYfXFExVWjIA/pub?output=xlsx3.6 kW PV in the Midlands - 9x Sharp 400W black panels - 6x facing SE and 3x facing SW, Solaredge Optimisers and Inverter. 400W Derril Water (one day). Octopus Flux0 -
If only it was that easy though.
Your gas usage is probably shown in cubic meters. You need to use a conversion factor (constant) and then adjust for the calorific value (variable) before you get to your KWh usage.
I consider myself highly numerate, but estimating the annual cost of gas is far from straightforward. You need good skills as well if you want to do this on a spreadsheet.
But it is that easy, the conversion was already done for you.
I'm in my 70's and have no difficulty making a spreadsheet and working it out.0 -
But it is that easy, the conversion was already done for you.
I'm in my 70's and have no difficulty making a spreadsheet and working it out.
Yes, the conversion has been done for us, but in real life it is not that easy if you want to check your consumption has been calculated correctly.
In your 70s, I would expect you to be able to set up a spreadsheet to do this, as maths was taught properly in those days, and you will understand how orders of precedence apply within your formulae. I suffered being taught under the "School Mathematics Project" when I changed schools at 13. My Maths teacher told me to forget BODMAS and simply work from left to right!
I had many work colleagues who would not be able to set up a spreadsheet to work out a gas bill in an elegant manner.0 -
Err no. More likely a drawn out table with computed figures worked out by using long multiplication; log tables or a slide rule.
I'm in my 70's and so's my wife and we can both set up a spreadsheet (in fact she's better than me at it).
It's a long time since the old "guessing stick" (slide-rule) and log tables have been used although I do tend to use a calculator.
I'm actually horrified at the poor grasp of basic arithmetic of the youngsters nowadays but when I sit down with the grandkids I'm as baffled as they are with the way they are being tought.
They can get it almost the first time when shown the way we do it but it's taking weeks if not months to teach them at school.Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers0 -
I still have a slide rule but I'm blowed if I can remember how to use it.
I'd be OK with log tables though. In fact it would be nice to have some use for remembering the Log of Pi; one of the many bits of knowledge that I learned as a child which are now useless.0 -
This thread got pretty alarming.
My kids are too young for school, guess I'll have to pay close attention to their maths homework once they're old enough to start getting it.3.6 kW PV in the Midlands - 9x Sharp 400W black panels - 6x facing SE and 3x facing SW, Solaredge Optimisers and Inverter. 400W Derril Water (one day). Octopus Flux0 -
I had to give it some thought to work it out, and check with matelodave to see if I was on the right track. I am 68, can't do spreadsheets, columns of numbers mean nothing to me. Maths was my worst subject at school, I have number blindness.
I don't use comparison sites because I don't understand them. I am with a company that charges the same rate for monthly DD and quarterly bills. I prefer to pay quarterly into the Post Office. They have no penalties for paying this way, and no standing charge. I keep my bills low by using gas and electricity frugally.
IlonaI love skip diving.0
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