PCN - long term health condition - HELP needed!

Meri983 · 22 October 2018 at 3:15AM

Apologies for creating a new thread if this question has already been answered.

I’m new to the forum and I’ve spent quite a while going through the NEWBIES thread and FAQS and couldn’t find anything regarding this except one off hand comment regarding the fact that if someone receives a PCN and has a long term medical condition then the PCN issuer is breaking the law.

I’m asking on behalf of the registered keeper who unfortunately would happily pay the PCN for a quiet life (and has done in the past much to my annoyance). However I really believe in this instance they should not pay and that the charge is unjust, I understand from reading that private PCN’s are fairly straight forward to contest and I’m happy to deal with doing some research regarding appealing the charge in this instance so that they don’t have to pay again. However this is the first PCN I’m dealing with personally and despite having read through some of the NEWBIES thread I cannot find any advice regarding disabilities/long term health conditions and PCN’s. I apologise if I have missed this info somewhere as I don’t intend to waste anyone’s time, please if the info is there just direct me to the appropriate thread.

So to give a brief explanation of events - the car in question was recently parked at Great Park, Rubery in Birmingham to go bowling and to the cinema and arcade. We have used this car park and the cinema and bowling plenty of times in the past and were not aware of any time restrictions on parking there. It seems ludicrous to place restrictions on parking in a leisure park which has multiple restaurants, a cinema and bowling alley. You could easily spend hours there using all the facilities and we have done in the past with no problems. However in this instance the keeper received a PCN. Obviously again in this instance the driver did not notice any signage stating a time limit and assumed as they were using the facilities and spending a fair amount of money that there was no rigid restriction, as there has never seemed to be in the past!

According to the PCN they have photographic evidence of the vehicle being parked from 16:42 to 22:16 on a Friday evening/night and the PCN states that the “terms and conditions clearly state on the signage - Maximum 5 hour free parking”. I should also probably mention at this point that the PCN has been issued by Civil Enforcement Ltd.

My first query is regarding the driver, who has been diagnosed with a long term health condition which to my understanding is protected by the Equality Act 2010. They have ulcerative colitis which often means that they have to use the toilet facilities far more frequently than most which obviously would account for taking longer at most places they visit. The driver does not have a blue badge as they never applied after being diagnosed as they weren't even aware if they would be eligible for one.

So after looking through the newbies thread I couldn’t find anything regarding PCN’s issued to those with protected long term health conditions or even those with blue badges. My question is do we just go through the normal procedure of initially complaining to store managers and the land owner or due to the drivers condition is there some other way to get the ticket cancelled due to potential discrimination against someone with a long term health condition? There is absolutely no information on the PCN letter regarding if a charge has been issued to someone with a disability or protected long term health condition. But of course I guess they don't really care about that and just want to scare people in to paying regardless of their rights.

My second question is obviously dependent on the answer to the first question and again is something I cannot seem to find anything with any detail about, or maybe I’ve just missed it or misunderstood. Apologies if so. The car is registered to a Ltd company and the PCN has been issued to the registered address for that company. My understanding is that we should not give CEL the name of the driver as it would be the driver who is considered responsible for the charge. However, I’m a bit unsure in this instance how this works as it’s not a privately owned vehicle, it’s a company vehicle which can be driven by multiple employees of the company. Surely Civil Enforcement Ltd don’t care too much about who was driving and will just pursue the company for the the Charge?

Any advice anyone who is knowledgable in dealing with PCN’s (and particularly with Civil Enforcement Ltd) could give is very much appreciated. Again I apologise if this information is already out there in the forum and I have missed it or misunderstood. This is my first time contesting a PCN and although there’s a lot of information out there I feel a bit overwhelmed by it all. I don’t want to just pay up despite the fact I know the registered keeper would prefer to especially if contesting the charge takes a lot of time and energy. We’ve had a couple of Council parking fines in the past that we have unsuccessfully appealed, despite them being very unclear and inconsistent regarding restrictions, due to being very misinformed and panicking about the “pay within this time period or it doubles” bribery. In this instance I personally do NOT just want to pay up as I understand these private fines are more often than not ridiculous to the point of verging on criminal.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Meri

MistyZ · 22 October 2018 at 10:17AM

Hello there.

The first thing to do is to edit your post so that the driver is not identified. So it is 'we received a PCN', 'the driver' did this or that and whoever the registered keeper is, refer to them as 'the keeper'. Do it straight away regardless of the question about who the car is registered to because the parking companies lurk here and you must not help them out!

Check out the Newbies' thread, in the advice there you'll find an appeal template in blue text. It's the only blue text you'll find! That's the one you need to send, unaltered, to CEL. I'm a little unclear about time frames, others will advise I'm sure but meanwhile you need to post the date of the alleged contravention, date of PCN & date you received it. Having located the appeal template you'll be good to go with that after a bit more discussion here.

The parking company will almost certainly refuse that appeal, the whole point of doing it is to get a POPLA code and it is that second appeal to POPLA that has more chance of success. Neither CEL nor POPLA will take any notice of 'mitigation' and long term health conditions fall into that category. You will have plenty of other grounds on which to appeal.

Appealing, or rather complaining, to the land owner is different. Again, don't reveal the driver's identity but do lay it all on the line and then some. Mitigating factors can be used in that complaint. Emphasise that you are loyal customers and tell them how much was spent on the day or during the last month or year or all of the above. They want your money, they want you to return again and again as you have done up to now. Be assertive, show your anger, refer to the health issues and to the Equality Act 2010. You do need to contextualise the health issues and to plan exactly what you're going to say, or rather write in an email. You'll also need to identify the best individual to send it to, the person with the most authority. The landowner / management do have the wherewithal to 'make this all go away' by cancelling the parking charge and this is a very worthwhile route to go down while simultaneously preparing for appeals.

The_Deep · 22 October 2018 at 10:21AM

Read this and get your MP on side

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P.
for unprofessional conduct

Redx · 22 October 2018 at 1:49PM

sorry to hear about this, as I too qualify under the EA2012 for A.S. and have a BB too

but unless a landowner or PPC has this fact brought to their attention, then they cannot be held liable for what they didnt know, so its up to this person to bring it to their attention and demand they put it right, or bear the consequences. they are not in breach until they are aware

and as this vehicle is a hire or leased vehicle, a company vehicle, then the blue text template is not applicable

go lower down post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to the last paragraphs and read the edna basher section, including links to the relevant appeal examples for leased vehicles

our resident expert on here is CM but she cannot post on here at the moment due to PPR, so you could post over on pepipoo forums by using a gmail email address to register (definitely not hotmail) and you may get targeted advice that helps you from her over there as SRM

she has also posted on here many times in various threads about the EA2010 and possibly even about your husbands condition too , so selective use of the forum search box may help with suitable search words

and the goverment is making it much easier to get a BB from early next year for various conditions under the EA2010. this is because there is no badge or proof or entitlement for anyone who qualifies under the EA2010 OTHER THAN THE BB, so its vital that he gets one and displays it even if its just to show proof of entitlement to "reasonable adjustments under the EA2010"

hope that helps ?

PCN - long term health condition - HELP needed!

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