An Open Letter To Mortgage Brokers.

dunstonh · 30 November 2008 at 7:49PM

The actions of these idiots is unforgivable and they show an immaturity and stupidity which really does give concern for people that are meant to be professional.

There are certain issues with the way Martin presents some bits of information which leave a bit to be desired and it can be frustrating to those that are regulated and authorised as they cannot get away with that sort of thing. So, they see it as a double standard. However, that has always been the case. I remember it happening back in the 80s and 90s with the printed media. The Daily Mail being one of the worst offenders. The only difference now is that Martin isnt "printed", he's everywhere

I have seen the Cherry site and read some of the posts there and quite frankly some of the posts and comments that get put there are disgraceful and what you would expect in a primary school playground.

What is a shame though is that Martin does comment in this open letter on this forum where the mortgage brokers, advisers etc [STRIKE]never [/STRIKE] rarely make any such comments. Disagree with issues maybe but never in the way Martin highlights. I do hope those reading this thread do not interpret Matin's comments to reflect the "FSA authorised" posters here

Chez_Guevara · 30 November 2008 at 8:16PM

Ah yes. I was an IFA back in the day - remember all the journalists saying that you were an IDIOT not to invest all your money into technology funds, particularly the one run by Aberdeen?

The amount of people that lost pretty much all their money in that fund was frightening. And of course, as the journalists were unregulated, there was absolutely no come back whatsoever.

I had 85 year-old investors, looking to put their life savings into those funds. And they were ANGRY when I said it really didn't meet their risk profile. I'm just glad I stuck to my guns and told them if they really wanted to do it, I didn't want my name on it... Saved me an awful lot of complaints!

lethal0r · 30 November 2008 at 8:56PM

koexelek wrote: »

After all, it's such a p*ss easy job, and you make a least £3000 commission per case by stitching the client up :rolleyes:

I never said it was an easy job. My point is that you can become a mortgage broker in a few months, with a little extra knowledge and that a broker is not some sort of mortgage sage who can offer a level of advice unparalled by non-brokers, as some on here seem to think.

Martin always qualifies the advice he offers and always says speak to a broker as well!

koexelek · 30 November 2008 at 10:03PM

lethal0r wrote: »

I never said it was an easy job. My point is that you can become a mortgage broker in a few months, with a little extra knowledge and that a broker is not some sort of mortgage sage who can offer a level of advice unparalled by non-brokers, as some on here seem to think.

Martin always qualifies the advice he offers and always says speak to a broker as well!

I've been doing it 20 odd years, and am still learning. The lenders are constantly moving the goalposts.

Yes, if you want to find the best five year fixed rate at 30% loan to value for a squeaky clean client who wants to borrow 2 times annual income, you probably can do it yourself.....
.....but the sort of people I come across often have overtime their employer won't guarantee, might be on a probation period, might be on a fixed term contract, might have a buy to let property in the backgrround, might not have permanent rights to remain in the UK, might want to do a shared ownership/ key work scheme , might want to borrow on a high rise flat, might want to buy a house with an agricultural restriction, might want to complete on a purchase before their sale goes through, might have missed a few payments on their credit card, might not have up to date audited accounts by a chartered accountant, might need someone to act as a guarantor, might be doing a council house right to buy, might be doing a self build mortgage, might be a expatriate buying an investment property in the uk ... etc etc etc

You need more than a maths o level and a calculator to sort those out :cool:

HelpWhereIcan · 30 November 2008 at 10:13PM

dunstonh wrote: »

The actions of these idiots is unforgivable and they show an immaturity and stupidity which really does give concern for people that are meant to be professional.

There are certain issues with the way Martin presents some bits of information which leave a bit to be desired and it can be frustrating to those that are regulated and authorised as they cannot get away with that sort of thing. So, they see it as a double standard. However, that has always been the case. I remember it happening back in the 80s and 90s with the printed media. The Daily Mail being one of the worst offenders. The only difference now is that Martin isnt "printed", he's everywhere

I have seen the Cherry site and read some of the posts there and quite frankly some of the posts and comments that get put there are disgraceful and what you would expect in a primary school playground.

What is a shame though is that Martin does comment in this open letter on this forum where the mortgage brokers, advisers etc [strike]never [/strike] rarely make any such comments. Disagree with issues maybe but never in the way Martin highlights. I do hope those reading this thread do not interpret Matin's comments to reflect the "FSA authorised" posters here

It makes me laugh when I look at some of the posts re Martin on Cherry.

Quite obviously people who do not take the time to visit here, actually read the guides that upset them and see what all the fuss is about themselves.

I have been a lurker there for a long time and even thought about joining their 'Cherry Find' service which aims to generate mortgage enquiries for members but was finally put off by the pathetic and continued attempts to do Martin down by the owners of the site.

The fact that they will appeal to the lowest common demoninator in the industry just to get members/subscribers shows that they don't have the sense they were born with let alone the ability to successfully promote the interests of mortgage brokers to the wider public.

If you can't recognise that the posters here reflect what a lot of people think and that Martin has always been openly supportive of brokers (albeit not in the way or to the extent they think he should) you can't expect to reach out to the Great British Public and compete with Martin and other journalists for their hearts and minds.

Not to mention their email of 26/11/08 to the FSA about unregulated individuals giving advice which is obviously aimed at Martin although it does not mention his name. They claim to have a problem with all journalists who give unregulated advice but do not see fit to dedicate a forum to Paul Lewis or any other high profile financial journalist.

Shame as there are some knowledgeable and reasonable people who post there. As usual it is spoiled by a small bunch of morons who are struggling for business and looking to blame anyone but themselves for their problems.

HelpWhereIcan · 30 November 2008 at 10:20PM

From the email from the 26/11/08 that I refer to in my post above

Dear FSA
Please be CERTAIN there is nothing else you could or should be doing to protect consumers from 'unauthorised' financial advice. There 'may' be real dangers to consumers that are not being addressed. It is our desire to do as much as possible to ensure that appropriate protection is in place and that potential industry damage is avoided.

We recognise that sometimes, posts made on the cherry Forum are not as 'constructively put' as they might be - especially given the nature of the forum. However, it is our firm belief that often, the underlying issues are important - hence we respectfully request that you consider the following.

Maybe we at cherry and / or some of our concerned members don't fully understand all the issues here but perhaps you could clarify.....

Is it the case that you are unable to protect consumers from anyone who is not specifically authorised by the FSA?

AND.... if so, do the rules regarding who needs to be authorised need to be reviewed?

AND.... is some form of separate 'limited authority' category appropriate / already in existence?

AND.... is the matter under consideration as part of the RDR?

As can be seen by the following posts made recently by intermediaries on the cherry Forum, concern exists about unqualified people apparently giving 'advice' to consumers relating to financial matters.

Despite the 'disclaimer' many feel that consumers are still at risk and we are all keen to ensure that as much as possible is done to protect consumers.

Post - ''The FSA have to do something about this man. I think he has done this to try to cover his own back because he was telling people to fix their rates a little while ago...and I can't believe he is yet again telling people to go to brokers and use their expertise for free...so await a load of waste of time leads yet again....''

Post - ''Someone made a good point re how many in the bad fixed rates DIY'd it? Or DIY'd it after listening to XXXXXX?

"Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance."

This is his tagline from his "wisdom" postings, what a load of nonsense''

As you can see it is a well written, fluid argument that as a broker I feel proud to think has been sent out purporting to be in my interests and reflective of my feelings.

If that is how they correspond with the FSA, how on earth do they expect to make the issues clear to the public?

dunstonh · 30 November 2008 at 11:21PM

To be honest and frank and this will irritate some mortgage brokers, I have been concerned that there are too many low skilled, commission hungry, layabouts on the mortgage side that are damaging reputations that had been improving. IFAs have suffered with sales reps, salesforces and those joining from closed salesforces but failing to upskill. However, mortgage advisers have suffered with an influx of greedy idiots who dont care about the job. These people damage the reputation not only of other decent mortgage advisers, but all other adviser types as well as the public often cant tell the difference.

I am not alone in this view other. I was at a recent meeting of company owners a home insurance provider was asked to talk to us. Apart from his presentation being totally inappropriate for our meeting, he made a big thing about double and treble commission being available. No-one in the room thought that was a good thing. His response was that mortgage advisers like it. The room's response back was mostly negative against mortgage advisers and some were quite rude about mortgage advisers.

I had a life company rep visit a few months back about a new product. After letting me know the features, she went on to give the commission terms. I said I didnt care as it was the features and terms that mattered. Her response was that most IFAs said that but most mortgage advisers didnt want to know the features, just what the commission was.

The good mortgage advisers really need to find a way to get a change of mindset in this "mindless" minority that are doing your profession no good at all. IFA company owners should do as well. Although maybe the FSA has decided to do it after announcing the end of indemnity commission on life products. That just leaves their attitude.

tomstickland · 30 November 2008 at 11:27PM

minimike2 wrote: »

But you MUST be qualified AND regulated to offer "advice" on mortgages.

Martin is neither.

Anyone can give advice on mortgages if they want to. The man down the pub can give me advice. Whether I act on that advice is for me to decide.

karie · 1 December 2008 at 12:03AM

to be honest i lost faith in mortgage brokers when i went to one last summer who kept pushing a 5.49% 2-year fixed deal with a £599 fee, even though i insisted i was looking for a tracker.

in the end i did some research myself and re-mortgaged with hsbc at 0.89% above BOE, no fees attached, and with hindsight that was by far the best thing i could have done.

i'm sure there are many very good brokers, and indeed i find a lot of advice from brokers that i read on here to be very useful... so its a shame to be put off by one dishonest one who has not your best interests at heart, but thats the reality of it for many.

Tiddler_2 · 1 December 2008 at 12:10AM

The bloke down the pub doesn't appear on the TV & radio every week as a money saving expert though does he?

I'll be honest here and say that I have never seen or heard Martin give mortgage advice.

Most of the "advice" on the forum is given by the general public or brokers/advisers.

I know that Martin has put together his guide on "Ditch the Fix" which has come in for some criticism, again to be honest this just encourages people to ask the question, and recommends speaking to a broker - if people decide to DIY it then they probably deserve what they get!

An Open Letter To Mortgage Brokers.

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free