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It is when it's turned on, same as aircon will reduce range in the summer.AnotherJoe wrote: »Its not the heater.The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
Oliver Wendell Holmes0 -
I sit corrected as I did not explain myself correctly. The FiT for what I'll call individual private people who want the highest FiT per kWh is (or was when I got mine three years ago) limited to 4kW.Solar PV banding under the FiT scheme runs all the way up to 5MWp ... all (non stand-alone) newly installed systems <10kWp are eligible to attract the same FiT rate, depending on energy efficiency ...The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
Oliver Wendell Holmes0 -
Indeed. I am happy with the 150ish real world miles of the 2018 Nissan Leaf. On our annual 280 mile trip, I have to stop at least once for a drink, sustenance and comfort break. At present, the problem is there are no chargers at that magic 150 miles so I'll have one longer break and one splash & dash later n the journey. That said, with Polar and others adding more rapid chargers around the country, it shouldn't be too long before most longer journies are covered even to what are more remote spots now.Martyn1981 wrote: »They raised an interesting point that range of around 200-250 miles is fine, and that they think companies aiming for 400 miles, 500 miles etc are missing the point,The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
Oliver Wendell Holmes0 -
I sit corrected as I did not explain myself correctly. The FiT for what I'll call individual private people who want the highest FiT per kWh is (or was when I got mine three years ago) limited to 4kW.
Hiya Nige, just to clear this up, when the government changed (attacked) the FiT rates in early 2016 they combined the 0-4kWp and 4-10kWp bands, so now it starts off with a 0-10kWp all at the same rate, so ideal for a 5kWp system running through a 3.68kW capped inverter for DNO reasons.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
I think that is my quote. I have got myself mixed up on the BMW webpage. Could it have been a model with this fabled range extender which showed as 37 grand?
Maybe, but adding the REX engine costs about £3,000 if my memory is correct from a few months ago - I was looking at the finance side anyway and I think it was a tenner a month or something. Point being, I wouldn't say FROM £30,000 is 'a heck of a lot cheaper' than FROM £37,000. A second hand i3 at £20,000, though, is.If they're installing heaters, then I guess the heating loses less range than having the battery cold
Yes. Electric motors are a mature technology, they're not going to get much more efficient. Li-ion is also pretty well established. The chemistry is what it is. Efficiency is going to come from keeping the battery at its operating temperature which is, handily, roughly, the temperature that humans also like. So what a battery will want is often the same air that you want, so sharing cabin air is a good way of cooling OR heating the battery. The battery also CHARGES more slowly if not at a 'comfortable' temperature. Being able to pre-heat the car (or pre-cool) while plugged really helps efficiency. Driving a car hard for, say, 1/2 a mile before charging, on a cold day, could bring the temp of the battery up, and you will quickly get back that energy you 'wasted' with a faster charging rate. Knowing your battery's temperature is very useful for drivers with an interest.
The range question - I've gone from 22kWh to 30kWh - 60 miles to 80 miles winter range. More would be great, but I'm simply charging less often and, yes, watching the range less. It helps for longer journeys, and for example, would mean that driving to Dublin would take 1 charge less, saving 30 mins.0 -
It is when it's turned on, same as aircon will reduce range in the summer.
!!!8212;!!!8212;!!!8212;
No it is not, or not to any meaningful amount. Do you have an EV? If so drive out on a cold day and switch the heating on The range will drop a small amount. On a summers day the range would be about 20% more than you see in the winter with no heating.
To emphasis, the vast majority of loss is the cold itself affecting the batteries. Nothing at all to do with heaters. This is a well known factor with EVa you might as well argue the world is flat. And yes I know some people are dumb enough to try and argue that but there!!!8217;s no excuse when you actually have an EV and can see it yourself just switch the heater off. On 100 Miles you might see it jump by 5. In the summer you!!!8217;d be seeing 1200 -
I'm not convinced. I was looking around the eGolf and one of the issues they have is in the world market they have to deal with extremes of temperature. They fit electric seats because the warm surfaces create the illusion of warmth. There isn't enough spare energy dissipated from the motor to warm the cabin in colder climates, and they can't afford to sacrifice too much power to heating e.g. Canada, so heated seats and steering wheel create the impression of a warm environment, so not so much energy has to be wasted. Remember that cars are not well insulated for warmth, and historically have relied on the heat inefficiency of the engine to provide the option to dump heat into the cabin.AnotherJoe wrote: »The vast majority of loss is the cold itself affecting the batteries. Nothing at all to do with heaters.0 -
IanMSpencer wrote: »I'm not convinced. I was looking around the eGolf and one of the issues they have is in the world market they have to deal with extremes of temperature. They fit electric seats because the warm surfaces create the illusion of warmth. There isn't enough spare energy dissipated from the motor to warm the cabin in colder climates, and they can't afford to sacrifice too much power to heating e.g. Canada, so heated seats and steering wheel create the impression of a warm environment, so not so much energy has to be wasted. Remember that cars are not well insulated for warmth, and historically have relied on the heat inefficiency of the engine to provide the option to dump heat into the cabin.
I'm sure I recall mention (somewhere?) of a 1kW heat pump for EV warmth. I thought that sounded a bit powerful at the time, but I suppose a steel and glass box is not the easiest thing to heat. Plus 1kWh for an hours driving (30-60 miles) doesn't sound too bad, especially if the car (and seats/steering wheel and battery) is heated beforehand whilst plugged in.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
IanMSpencer wrote: »I'm not convinced. I was looking around the eGolf and one of the issues they have is in the world market they have to deal with extremes of temperature. They fit electric seats because the warm surfaces create the illusion of warmth. There isn't enough spare energy dissipated from the motor to warm the cabin in colder climates, and they can't afford to sacrifice too much power to heating e.g. Canada, so heated seats and steering wheel create the impression of a warm environment, so not so much energy has to be wasted. Remember that cars are not well insulated for warmth, and historically have relied on the heat inefficiency of the engine to provide the option to dump heat into the cabin.
OK I know its The Sun, but this is actually a well written factual article which summarises the problem (and a solution, prewarm the battery whilst still charging)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/5179794/tesla-just-solved-the-problem-of-your-electric-car-battery-losing-range-in-cold-weather/
Or you could try this https://forums.tesla.com/en_GB/forum/forums/cold-weather-range-loss
Or this https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2014/03/24/the-cold-truth-icy-temps-can-slash-an-electric-cars-range-by-more-than-half/#71eb9956344e0 -
I got back from the Alps last week in my 8 year old ICE car which leads me to make the following observations:
1. We certainly stopped every couple of hundred miles if only to change drivers. Going we did it in one day (Le Havre to Italy via Mt Blanc tunnel) which wouldn't be possible with most (any?) EV cars.
Coming back we did an overnight stop with what would have been a leisurely second day, except for getting caught on D roads in a snowstorm "Oh, where's the edge of the road, ooh look, another car..".
2. Whichever EV you get will need more planning!
3. France is big and under-provided with chargers (but in the past I've also been nervous about finding a petrol station!).
4. The situation _is_ improving. In the year since I was last there my destination (the Aosta valley) has installed a new network of chargers,mainly 7kW but some 22kWs at the two international tunnels. :
https://mobility.dufercoenergia.com/Vda
5. Those of us who drive older cars are going to have to wait a few more years..
A PHEV would meet my needs (though not my pocket) but the elegant simplicity of electric-only appeals. Maybe I should start to look into international car hire, or persuade my GF to take her white van on holiday. That appeals as we'd have more space for wine and cheese!0
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