Car declared sorn in our parking area

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  • Car_54
    Car_54 Posts: 8,215 Forumite
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    TooManyPoints wrote: »
    The issue is firstly the function of the land where the car is parked. If it is a "road" a SORN'd vehicle cannot be left there. If it is not a road (e.g. if it is a car park) then it can. Whether the area is adopted or unadopted, repairable at public expense or not is not the primary issue, it's whether it's a road or not. If it is a road then other factors come into play but before then, certainly in this case, the purpose of the land needs to be established.

    The requirement for a vehicle to be subject to a valid SORN is that the vehicle is not used or kept on a public road. A car park is not a road. I imagine, as seems customary, what I write will be immediately challenged, rubbished or dismissed by at least one participant to this thread, so in a (probably unsuccessful) attempt to avoid that, here's my support:

    Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 [penalty for using or keeping an unlicensed vehicle]

    (2B) Subsection (1) does not apply to a vehicle if—

    (a)the vehicle is being neither used nor kept on a public road [my emphasis], and

    (b)the particulars and declaration required to be furnished and made by regulations under section 22(1D) have been furnished and made in accordance with the regulations and the terms of the declaration have at no time been breached.

    Subsection (1) referred to sets out the requirements to license a vehicle. Section 22 (1D) sets out the requirements to complete a SORN.

    The authority that determines that a car park is not a road is Clarke v Kato, House of Lords, 1998.

    So, if the area is a "car park" the vehicle can remain there provided it is SORN'd. If it is a road then it possibly (depending on the status of the road) cannot.
    The relevant definition of “public road” for taxation (and SORN) purposes is in section 62 of VERA: one “repairable at the public expense”. So an unadopted road is not a public road in this context, and SORNed vehicles can be parked there legally.
  • a.turner
    a.turner Posts: 655 Forumite
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    TooManyPoints wrote: »
    The issue is firstly the function of the land where the car is parked. If it is a "road" a SORN'd vehicle cannot be left there. If it is not a road (e.g. if it is a car park) then it can. Whether the area is adopted or unadopted, repairable at public expense or not is not the primary issue, it's whether it's a road or not. If it is a road then other factors come into play but before then, certainly in this case, the purpose of the land needs to be established.

    The requirement for a vehicle to be subject to a valid SORN is that the vehicle is not used or kept on a public road. A car park is not a road. I imagine, as seems customary, what I write will be immediately challenged, rubbished or dismissed by at least one participant to this thread, so in a (probably unsuccessful) attempt to avoid that, here's my support:

    Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 [penalty for using or keeping an unlicensed vehicle]

    (2B) Subsection (1) does not apply to a vehicle if—

    (a)the vehicle is being neither used nor kept on a public road [my emphasis], and

    (b)the particulars and declaration required to be furnished and made by regulations under section 22(1D) have been furnished and made in accordance with the regulations and the terms of the declaration have at no time been breached.

    Subsection (1) referred to sets out the requirements to license a vehicle. Section 22 (1D) sets out the requirements to complete a SORN.

    The authority that determines that a car park is not a road is Clarke v Kato, House of Lords, 1998.

    So, if the area is a "car park" the vehicle can remain there provided it is SORN'd. If it is a road then it possibly (depending on the status of the road) cannot.

    You couldn't be more wrong.

    It also must be a road, not a public place or car park for tax purposes.
  • TooManyPoints
    TooManyPoints Posts: 1,248 Forumite
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    edited 12 July 2019 at 4:08PM
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    You couldn't be more wrong.

    It also must be a road, not a public place or car park for tax purposes.
    If it is not a road (e.g. if it is a car park) then it can. [be left there provided it is SORN'd]

    So what are you arguing over this time, then? (Might be nice if you read my post fully before answering)
  • Rover_Driver
    Rover_Driver Posts: 1,508 Forumite
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    A complication is that there can be the situation where a vehicle is not on a public road within the meaning of the Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994, and a SORN is a valid exemption in respect of vehicle licensing.
    But if that location is a road or other public place within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1988, the SORN is not a valid exemption in respect of insurance and the vehicle is required to be covered.
  • googler
    googler Posts: 16,103 Forumite
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    Is the neighbour who owns the car one of the five who 'own' the parking area?

    If so, he would appear to be within his rights to occupy one of the spaces, SORN or not.

    Are you saying he is parking in YOUR specific parking space within the parking area?
  • Scrapit
    Scrapit Posts: 2,304 Forumite
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    TooManyPoints wrote: »
    So what are you arguing over this time, then?
    Who cares?!
  • TooManyPoints
    TooManyPoints Posts: 1,248 Forumite
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    Who cares?!

    I do.

    (10 characters needed so here they are).
  • Scrapit
    Scrapit Posts: 2,304 Forumite
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    TooManyPoints wrote: »
    I do.

    (10 characters needed so here they are).
    Then you are made for each other.
  • grayson
    grayson Posts: 105 Forumite
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    googler wrote: »
    Is the neighbour who owns the car one of the five who 'own' the parking area?

    If so, he would appear to be within his rights to occupy one of the spaces, SORN or not.

    Are you saying he is parking in YOUR specific parking space within the parking area?

    No they live about 800 yards away from our road.
  • TooManyPoints
    TooManyPoints Posts: 1,248 Forumite
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    Then you are made for each other.

    I sincerely hope not. It seems each time I post an answer on here "a.turner" takes it upon himself to challenge or dismiss my musings or, in some instances, accuses me of being a liar. This is no exception and he has taken up the cudgel once again with a response that shows he lacks the courtesy even to properly read what has been posted before responding. That's his privilege, but made for each other we are not. :D
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