Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • hawkis
    • By hawkis 7th Sep 18, 12:27 PM
    • 78Posts
    • 10Thanks
    hawkis
    Gardening Leave? No, you finished a month ago! What can I do?
    • #1
    • 7th Sep 18, 12:27 PM
    Gardening Leave? No, you finished a month ago! What can I do? 7th Sep 18 at 12:27 PM
    The facts:
    Told I was being made redundant on 6th August.
    Told to go home as there would be no work for me but to be available in case they needed me.
    Letter received on 7th August stating that redundancy will be paid end of 31st August (it was) and that any other pay and accrued holiday will be paid on 28th September and I would also get my P45 at that point. My last day of work would be 24th September.
    On 31st August I received a letter saying so long and good luck and enclosed was also my P45 and a payslip. The payslip detailed my redundancy payment plus PILON. The finish date on my P45 says 7th August.
    I dropped into the office to see HR ON Wednesday to find out why I'd received my P45 early and my PILON and they told me that I wasn't in fact on gardening leave until 24th September and I was in fact free to find employment from 8th August. They also said that they were not told I was on gardening leave.
    Email clarification received yesterday:
    "I can confirm you are free to start new employment. Your leave date is the 7th of August in our system, which makes you a leaver from the 8th of August. As your leave date has changed after the letter was issued you will not receive any further payment from us."

    That states that my leave date changed. At no point was I advised of this.

    So, I've been applying for jobs since I heard I was being made redundant but was doing so assuming that I wouldn't be available to start until after 24th September.
    I believe that they have effectively prevented me from being able to work since 8th August.
    I did speak to ACAS this morning and they said I should write to the company with my grievance including asking for recompense for potential lost earnings. I was offered a part-time job but had to turn it down as I was told I was on gardening leave.

    Has anyone else been in this situation or have any advice about my next course of action? I'm very angry about this simply because I could have been earning money for the last month!

    TIA
Page 1
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 7th Sep 18, 12:35 PM
    • 10,366 Posts
    • 12,542 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #2
    • 7th Sep 18, 12:35 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Sep 18, 12:35 PM
    The facts:
    Told I was being made redundant on 6th August.
    Told to go home as there would be no work for me but to be available in case they needed me.
    Letter received on 7th August stating that redundancy will be paid end of 31st August (it was) and that any other pay and accrued holiday will be paid on 28th September and I would also get my P45 at that point. My last day of work would be 24th September.
    On 31st August I received a letter saying so long and good luck and enclosed was also my P45 and a payslip. The payslip detailed my redundancy payment plus PILON. The finish date on my P45 says 7th August.
    I dropped into the office to see HR ON Wednesday to find out why I'd received my P45 early and my PILON and they told me that I wasn't in fact on gardening leave until 24th September and I was in fact free to find employment from 8th August. They also said that they were not told I was on gardening leave.
    Email clarification received yesterday:
    "I can confirm you are free to start new employment. Your leave date is the 7th of August in our system, which makes you a leaver from the 8th of August. As your leave date has changed after the letter was issued you will not receive any further payment from us."

    That states that my leave date changed. At no point was I advised of this.

    So, I've been applying for jobs since I heard I was being made redundant but was doing so assuming that I wouldn't be available to start until after 24th September.
    I believe that they have effectively prevented me from being able to work since 8th August.
    I did speak to ACAS this morning and they said I should write to the company with my grievance including asking for recompense for potential lost earnings. I was offered a part-time job but had to turn it down as I was told I was on gardening leave.

    Has anyone else been in this situation or have any advice about my next course of action? I'm very angry about this simply because I could have been earning money for the last month!

    TIA
    Originally posted by hawkis


    I think you're not going to get anywhere; even though I agree with you in principle. You have nothing in writing to say it's gardening leave; it's just verbal.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 7th Sep 18, 12:59 PM
    • 4,483 Posts
    • 3,882 Thanks
    Undervalued
    • #3
    • 7th Sep 18, 12:59 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Sep 18, 12:59 PM
    I did speak to ACAS this morning and they said I should write to the company with my grievance including asking for recompense for potential lost earnings. I was offered a part-time job but had to turn it down as I was told I was on gardening leave.

    Has anyone else been in this situation or have any advice about my next course of action? I'm very angry about this simply because I could have been earning money for the last month!

    TIA
    Originally posted by hawkis
    Well I think on this occasion ACAS are right but it would be much easier if you had some proof that you had been placed on "gardening leave".

    Ultimately if it comes to court it is down to who the judge believes "on the balance of probability" (i.e. 51%).
    • hawkis
    • By hawkis 7th Sep 18, 1:03 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    hawkis
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 18, 1:03 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Sep 18, 1:03 PM
    Thanks for the replies. Does the fact that they say my leaving date changed not suggest that I was in fact on gardening leave?
    And also that I have another letter telling me I will receive any payments and holiday accrued along with my P45 at the end of September when I did in fact receive all of that last Friday?
    • RADDERS
    • By RADDERS 7th Sep 18, 1:05 PM
    • 239 Posts
    • 272 Thanks
    RADDERS
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 18, 1:05 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Sep 18, 1:05 PM
    Letter received on 7th August stating that redundancy will be paid end of 31st August (it was) and that any other pay and accrued holiday will be paid on 28th September and I would also get my P45 at that point. My last day of work would be 24th September.

    The OP says that a letter was received detailing that the last working day was the 24th September, does that not put a different slant on this?
    • scaredofdebt
    • By scaredofdebt 7th Sep 18, 1:31 PM
    • 1,431 Posts
    • 705 Thanks
    scaredofdebt
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 18, 1:31 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Sep 18, 1:31 PM
    Yes, looks pretty clear that you are employed up until 24th Sept.

    Is that in writing?
    Make £2018 in 2018 Challenge - Total to date £2,108
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 7th Sep 18, 2:01 PM
    • 38,047 Posts
    • 23,615 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 18, 2:01 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Sep 18, 2:01 PM
    What date did they use for accrued holiday

    Your letter says that should be 24 Sept if they used 7aug they owe you holiday.

    Reality is that would be your only loss,

    Your new leaving date is still more vavourable, you can start any new job sooner.
    • hawkis
    • By hawkis 7th Sep 18, 2:27 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    hawkis
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 18, 2:27 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Sep 18, 2:27 PM
    What date did they use for accrued holiday

    Your letter says that should be 24 Sept if they used 7aug they owe you holiday.

    Reality is that would be your only loss,

    Your new leaving date is still more vavourable, you can start any new job sooner.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Everything is paid up until 24th September.
    However, my original letter dated 6th August advised that anything else I was owed would be paid at the end of September (accrued holiday, September wages) and that I would also get my P45 then.
    I got my P45 on Friday along with my final payslip which includes PILON.
    Whilst my 'new'' leave date does give me the opportunity to start work immediately, I have spent the last month applying for jobs that I believed I would not be able to start until after 24th September.
    And HR have admitted that the date changed although I have had no notification of that.
    Basically, had I not been told I was on gardening leave, I could have been working since 8th August and be doing the job I was offered the weekend after that!
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 7th Sep 18, 3:17 PM
    • 38,047 Posts
    • 23,615 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #9
    • 7th Sep 18, 3:17 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Sep 18, 3:17 PM
    When they tell you it was a mistake and reinstate employment with garden leave you have no claim for anything as they have put you back in the position you expected.
    • Heng Leng
    • By Heng Leng 8th Sep 18, 5:01 AM
    • 4,944 Posts
    • 1,638 Thanks
    Heng Leng
    You haven't actually lost anything as it doesn't sound like it they stopped you from actually taking the other job.

    I would have accepted it and asked them to waive the remainder of the gardening leave. You didn't even ask - to your own detriment it seems.
    Last edited by Heng Leng; 08-09-2018 at 5:04 AM.
    • hawkis
    • By hawkis 8th Sep 18, 1:47 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    hawkis
    You haven't actually lost anything as it doesn't sound like it they stopped you from actually taking the other job.

    I would have accepted it and asked them to waive the remainder of the gardening leave. You didn't even ask - to your own detriment it seems.
    Originally posted by Heng Leng
    I didn't need to ask as apparently I was never on gardening leave in the first place!
    I'm not sure I'm making this very clear.
    I was made redundant and told I was on gardening leave and to be available to work if necessary.
    I then got my PILON and P45 last week despite being told by letter I would not get it until end of September.
    I've since been told my leaving date changed (I wasn't informed) and I was free to find other employment from 8th August. This I found out last Wednesday.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 8th Sep 18, 2:27 PM
    • 38,047 Posts
    • 23,615 Thanks
    getmore4less
    It clear enough

    You thought you were on garden leave.

    The correct process when you find work during the notice period is to give counter notice to leave earlier.

    Unless they suddenly found a reason they needed you they would have agree.

    As you did not bother you have now found out you can start work 2.5 weeks earlier than expected.
    • hawkis
    • By hawkis 8th Sep 18, 2:29 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    hawkis
    It clear enough

    You thought you were on garden leave.

    The correct process when you find work during the notice period is to give counter notice to leave earlier.

    Unless they suddenly found a reason they needed you they would have agree.

    As you did not bother you have now found out you can start work 2.5 weeks earlier than expected.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Had I found a job would I not have lost any pay due from that point until my last day?
    And I was told to be available if required as well.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 8th Sep 18, 2:35 PM
    • 4,483 Posts
    • 3,882 Thanks
    Undervalued
    I didn't need to ask as apparently I was never on gardening leave in the first place!
    I'm not sure I'm making this very clear.
    I was made redundant and told I was on gardening leave and to be available to work if necessary.
    I then got my PILON and P45 last week despite being told by letter I would not get it until end of September.
    I've since been told my leaving date changed (I wasn't informed) and I was free to find other employment from 8th August. This I found out last Wednesday.
    Originally posted by hawkis
    PILON and gardening leave are not the same thing as I am sure your appreciate.

    The difference from the employer's point of view is that gardening leave gives them the option of calling you back in should an unexpected need arise.

    You have no specific right to either, the employer could have simply insisted you came in to work and did some mundane task for your notice period.

    I can understand that you are annoyed to find out now that they are calling it PILON (where you could have lawfully started work elsewhere). However given that they could have exercised either of the other options, which would have prevented you from working elsewhere, I don't see that you have any valid claim.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 8th Sep 18, 3:27 PM
    • 38,047 Posts
    • 23,615 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Had I found a job would I not have lost any pay due from that point until my last day?
    And I was told to be available if required as well.
    Originally posted by hawkis
    Up to the employer the could still pay full notice plenty do, but you would have found out sooner they had decided to PILON you anyway.
    • hawkis
    • By hawkis 10th Sep 18, 8:49 PM
    • 78 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    hawkis
    Well I'm going to see what they say anyway. ACAS were quite keen for me to pursue it.
    Went to the JC today and found out that I could have claimed JSA from 8th August as well and it can't be backdated.
    I'm not going to give up, I've been completely misled and missed out on at least a month's worth of JSA.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 10th Sep 18, 11:32 PM
    • 38,047 Posts
    • 23,615 Thanks
    getmore4less
    I refer you back to post #9
    • Blue641Jenny
    • By Blue641Jenny 25th Aug 19, 10:53 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Blue641Jenny
    Also unsure on working during gardening leave
    I have similar situation I have left my job due to contract ending at a school. On the day I left I was told I was entitled to redundancy but I needed to take 4 weeks gardening leave. Contract finishes August 31st and I have recieved last wage and I have not been given anything in writing about how gardening leave works. Just two conversations . One said I cannot do paid work until 1st October and the other said I can as long as I work through an agency. As I dont wish to lose my redundancy payment not sure what to do.
    Jen
    • isplumm
    • By isplumm 30th Aug 19, 8:37 AM
    • 1,917 Posts
    • 817 Thanks
    isplumm
    I have similar situation I have left my job due to contract ending at a school. On the day I left I was told I was entitled to redundancy but I needed to take 4 weeks gardening leave. Contract finishes August 31st and I have recieved last wage and I have not been given anything in writing about how gardening leave works. Just two conversations . One said I cannot do paid work until 1st October and the other said I can as long as I work through an agency. As I dont wish to lose my redundancy payment not sure what to do.
    Jen
    Originally posted by Blue641Jenny
    you'd be better to start your own thread.

    But why not just go back into the school & ask - do you know what your redundancy figure is?

    Mark
    We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com
    • Energize
    • By Energize 13th Sep 19, 12:00 AM
    • 501 Posts
    • 230 Thanks
    Energize
    This is why in situations where I'm on gardening leave I just disregard it and start work asap with a new employer, realistically they aren't going to call you in.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

208Posts Today

1,946Users online

Martin's Twitter