Ace Security FIRST APPEAL ARGH!

akzy1990 · 10 June 2018 at 5:38PM

Hello everyone!!! I have been reading and reading and reading and its amazing to see such success!! My brain is frazzled now and with so much information to be taken in, i have been overwhelmed. I have read all about ACE and Gladstones appeals (i am at that stage too for 3 more from ACE but I have not responded to them at anytime so will post a thread at some point). I have appealed many fines and had good success however these people really really get under my skin, and I want to make it perfect!! I really want to shut them up. This was the letter I sent to appeal, and also what they sent back. As my emotions are getting the better of me, I just want some clarification and cool heads as I don't want to over do it and say the wrong thing. My appeal is as follows.......:

You issued me with a parking ticket on ……. but I believe it was unlawfully issued. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following:

• There was insufficient signage

The car park in question has no clear signage to explain what the relevant parking restrictions are for RESIDENTS of the parking space. This means no contract can be formed with the landowner and all tickets are issued unlawfully. In addition, the parking space is private and paid for directly to the landlord. Nowhere does it state in the tenancy agreement, which was signed by the residents of the parking space, that you have the right to issue tickets to residents who pay for their parking. We pay for the parking space and these are the requirement in our legally binding document, Tenancy Agreement.

• The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable

The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner. In my case, the £100 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner as the land owner is already being paid the correct sum for the parking. I therefore feel the charge you have asked for is excessive.

• Mitigating circumstances

There are mitigating circumstances to explain why the vehicle was parked where it was and the charge should be waived for this reason. Please see attached evidence, which is an e-mail confirming that the car parked has been looked into and is registered property of a resident.

Finally, I would like to ask you to prove your assertions of issuing tickets. I would like to ask for either a copy of the contract that binds yourselves with the landowner to issue tickets, which is my right in an appeal, or offer a witness statement as an alternative to the contract itself, that is signed by the landowner as per BPA Code of Practice 22.16b.

If you choose to pursue me, please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.

......:

After reading some info on the threads I know the commercially justifiable point is weak.

Please find below the between our landlord and myself.

Dear Landlord

I hope all is well at the office and in general.

I am e-mailing you the logbook of the car registered to .... in order to request a parking permit for our parking space. Also I sould like to thank you for contacting Ace Securities to hold off for at least a week. Thank you for taking the time to complete this request.

........:

Dear Registered Owner,

Just to confirm that Ace Security are aware & have logged your new cars registration for 1 week.

Regards

........:

After the one week a ticket was issued. Can I still do it??? Can I still appeal with the hope of winning???

Hope someone can help, thanks everyone

Umkomaas · 10 June 2018 at 5:49PM

There's no appeal you can put to an IPC operator that will secure a cancellation of your ticket(s) - just doesn't happen. No point either in appealing via the IAS - you have an 80%+ chance of losing there too, giving the PPC the impetus (and an 'independent' adjudication to wave in front of a Judge) to issue court proceedings.

You just need to see what the PPC's next move is. If it's a LBC or MCOL (see NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #5 for acronyms) post #2 of the newbie sticky shows you how to deal with court proceedings.

ACE are somewhat litigious, so you might well be seeing a Claim Form before too long. Very defendable and Glads can and do often make a hash of things.

http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/Ace_Security_Services.html

Coupon-mad · 10 June 2018 at 5:50PM

After reading some info on the threads I know the commercially justifiable point is weak.

In the contrary, a PPC would have to have commercial justification and a 'legitimate interest' in chargung a sum that is far higher than that in damages that might otherwise apply.

What is weak (with no legs at all) is:

The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable
The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner. In my case, the £100 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner as the land owner is already being paid the correct sum for the parking. I therefore feel the charge you have asked for is excessive.

Mitigating circumstances

Aaaargggh!! Mitigating circumstances has no place and nor does 'loss'!

Instead of coming to this forum, you used the TRULY AWFUL MSE template 'appeal' in the article about parking tickets on the main site. Horrible appeal, useless. They still have GPEOL in it, as if it's a thing.

Never mind, even with our template appeal you would still be in the same position now and sitting on your hands ignoring them.

And no-one tells you to appeal further with an IPC firm like this. No POPLA, no second appeal. That is made VERY clear in the NEWBIES thread post #3, that IAS is considered a kangaroo court. No-one succeeds:

https://theipc.info/aos-members/a

IPC firm, please don't ask what the ''next step'' is, or I will scream!!

We succeed at court stage, almost every time (no risk of a CCJ, no big deal if lost).

Read any other IPC thread, come back if that (court claim or LBC stage) happens, 'nuff said, nothing about debt collector letters please...no other questions at this stage, the answer is no to all. We will help you at court stage like with any IPC firm thread, all the same.

NO RISK. NO CCJ as long as you do not ignore court papers, and keep the PPC updated if you move house, so you can't miss court papers within 6 years.

akzy1990 · 10 June 2018 at 6:42PM

I have read all that information and that has helped!! Next will be a thread on the gladstone's stuff as they I have requested a PAP form from them which I need to send back before the 25/06/2018. The PPC replied this.......:

Dear .....

Unless there are extenuating circumstances, due to the Data projection Act, we can only discuss a Charge Notice with the driver responsible for parking the vehicles at the location prior to this Charge Notice being issued. Please can you confirm if you were the driver at the time.

This information must be received by us before the Charge notice reaches 28 days old; otherwise your letter will be disregarded for failing to comply with our terms and conditions for appeal.

Please note if you do not have a valid permit you cannot park your vehicle on the land. you are fully aware of the requirements for a permit as you have enclosed evidence of you applying for one. Please also be aware that we are not members of the BPA and therefore will not comply with their regulations and will not supply you with any copy of our contract at this time. We would also refer to the Supreme Court case of Beavis Vs parking Eye in regards to your claims of disproportionate costs, it is not applicable. Finally all photographs taken of your vehicle are available at ... where you will see a warning sign directly in front of your vehicle. If you believe you have any right to park at Kite & Osprey House you must supply that evidence also, failure to supply any evidence to support your claims will result in it being assumed the evidence does not exist.

.........: therefore I will be sending a formal appeal letter. I will do some research on the thread for a better template than the one than was used previously but there are any links please let me know. Also this sign that they speak about says, residents parking only and thats it, I am a resident. doesn't ask for a permit, neither does their signage at the entrance.

Redx · 10 June 2018 at 6:54PM

no links, the correct one and only template is in post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread near the top of this forum , third thread down

dont start another new thread, just tack any queries onto this thread

unless there is a just and valid reason to disclose a drivers details , do not do so

there are no qick and easy answers to this topic, so stop looking for one

ideally you get the MA or landowner to get any tickets by ACE cancelled , otherwise you are in it for 6 years

Coupon-mad · 10 June 2018 at 8:16PM

Dear .....

Unless there are extenuating circumstances, due to the Data projection Act, we can only discuss a Charge Notice with the driver responsible for parking the vehicles at the location prior to this Charge Notice being issued. Please can you confirm if you were the driver at the time.

An absolute dirty lie. :mad:

Did they ever get your data from the DVLA as registered keeper? Then you can send them a SAR as the rk and they MUST respond, not lie about the DPA.

akzy1990 · 20 June 2018 at 3:21PM

1) Letter sent to Ace Security

2) In regards to 2 other fines, Gladstone have sent a LBC letter (ACE SECURITY)

3) I requested a PAP and filled it in saying I dispute the debt. I have filled in the financial statement as I have nil income. They have asked reasons for disputing the debt, do I get together my defence statement and send it too them now? I have started writing my defence statement up thanks to some of the other threads. what should I do in regards to the PAP form as I don't want to handicap myself before I send it off. Many Thanks.

Coupon-mad · 20 June 2018 at 3:43PM

I have filled in the financial statement as I have nil income.

I hope you mean you haven't filled that in?

You only fill that crap form in, if you ADMIT owing money. You will be denying the entire claim, not admitting it, and they have no reason to see your income/expenditure.

akzy1990 · 21 June 2018 at 9:14PM

Its still at home and I haven't sent it off or anything. I got to acknowledge it somehow right? Just a letter saying I deny any liability and wrap it up as that?

KeithP · 21 June 2018 at 10:11PM

akzy1990 wrote: »

I got to acknowledge it somehow right? Just a letter saying I deny any liability and wrap it up as that?

Here's an idea... why don't you follow the guidance offered in post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread?

In there you will find sample robust LBC responses that just need slight tweaking to fit your circumstances.

akzy1990 · 25 June 2018 at 10:39PM

So much information!!! Amazing information and some relate directly with my case!!! Thank you for the direction. Below is the letter I will be sending in response to the LBC.

Dear Sirs/Madam,!!!8232;!!!8232;

I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of (DATE).!Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.!!!8232;!!!8232;

Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.!

!!!8232;!!!8232;Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

!!!8232;!!!8232;As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.!!!8232;!!!8232;

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.!

!!!8232;!!!8232;I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:!!!8232;!!!8232;

1. an explanation of the cause of action!!!!8232;2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper!!!8232;3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012!!!8232;4. what the details of the claim are; how long was the vehicle parked, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated!!!8232;5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.!!!!8232;6. a plan showing where any signs were displayed!!!8232;7. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)!!!8232;8. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added!!!8232;9. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form

!!!8232;!!!8232;If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.!

!!!8232;!!!8232;Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.!!!8232;!!!8232;

Yours faithfully!!!8232;

Im sure it doesn't need a response (hoping) but I figured I will post it to show every step of the way. Many Thanks for continued support and direction. 3 of these to tackle!

Ace Security FIRST APPEAL ARGH!

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