Small claims court online form - unclear and vague
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rtaylor005
Posts: 2 Newbie
Hi,
I had completed an online form for small claims court earlier this year against a builder who took upfront deposit for a job but never turned up or refunded back. Now the Civil Money Claims Dept wrote back to us advising that the court told them that I can not file a case against both a limited company and individual and are asking to complete a N244 application process and pay £100 fee.
Now this seems rather ludicrous and I even checked this with someone who works in Legal. The small claims court online form does not mention anywhere that you must specify only an individual name or business name. Instead the form asks you to fill both details under defendants details. If one must be specified and not the other the forms needs to mention that clearly and the form also needs to make known of any charges if you don't before you submit the form. The form does not mention any of this but just asks for all information relating to the defendant.
When you put both the individual name and business name the PDF copy after you submit the form online combines the two details together.
Now the fault clearly lies with the people who designed the form. There is absolutely no reason why the form can not clearly seperate the two and graying out one or the other in the field box (name and business name) if they know the claimant may be charged £100 later for amending the individual name over to business name only.
I was advised that as a claimant I was in no position to make a informed decision as to whether I agree to the £100 charge at the time before submitting the form so the fault lies with the people who created the form.
Now the problem is by paying the £100 I would make a loss as I am claiming £75 plus the £25 court fees and paying £100 essentially means the defendant has won the claim the case even before being considered by the court as now there would be no point in taking it any further if you are not going to get your money back without making a loss.
I have tried to contact Civil Money Claims Dept but they don't have a process in place to deal with my concerns but rather advisng me its up to me whether to pay the £100 and complete the N244 application process or not and can't advise any further.
Surely there must be a better way to sort this out so claimants are better informed at the beginning. Any advise?
The impression that I get is that the online form is kind of rather deceptive in some ways in order to make more money later.
I had completed an online form for small claims court earlier this year against a builder who took upfront deposit for a job but never turned up or refunded back. Now the Civil Money Claims Dept wrote back to us advising that the court told them that I can not file a case against both a limited company and individual and are asking to complete a N244 application process and pay £100 fee.
Now this seems rather ludicrous and I even checked this with someone who works in Legal. The small claims court online form does not mention anywhere that you must specify only an individual name or business name. Instead the form asks you to fill both details under defendants details. If one must be specified and not the other the forms needs to mention that clearly and the form also needs to make known of any charges if you don't before you submit the form. The form does not mention any of this but just asks for all information relating to the defendant.
When you put both the individual name and business name the PDF copy after you submit the form online combines the two details together.
Now the fault clearly lies with the people who designed the form. There is absolutely no reason why the form can not clearly seperate the two and graying out one or the other in the field box (name and business name) if they know the claimant may be charged £100 later for amending the individual name over to business name only.
I was advised that as a claimant I was in no position to make a informed decision as to whether I agree to the £100 charge at the time before submitting the form so the fault lies with the people who created the form.
Now the problem is by paying the £100 I would make a loss as I am claiming £75 plus the £25 court fees and paying £100 essentially means the defendant has won the claim the case even before being considered by the court as now there would be no point in taking it any further if you are not going to get your money back without making a loss.
I have tried to contact Civil Money Claims Dept but they don't have a process in place to deal with my concerns but rather advisng me its up to me whether to pay the £100 and complete the N244 application process or not and can't advise any further.
Surely there must be a better way to sort this out so claimants are better informed at the beginning. Any advise?
The impression that I get is that the online form is kind of rather deceptive in some ways in order to make more money later.
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Comments
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rtaylor005 wrote: »Hi,
I had completed an online form for small claims court earlier this year against a builder who took upfront deposit for a job but never turned up or refunded back. Now the Civil Money Claims Dept wrote back to us advising that the court told them that I can not file a case against both a limited company and individual and are asking to complete a N244 application process and pay £100 fee.
Now this seems rather ludicrous and I even checked this with someone who works in Legal. The small claims court online form does not mention anywhere that you must specify only an individual name or business name. Instead the form asks you to fill both details under defendants details. If one must be specified and not the other the forms needs to mention that clearly and the form also needs to make known of any charges if you don't before you submit the form. The form does not mention any of this but just asks for all information relating to the defendant.
When you put both the individual name and business name the PDF copy after you submit the form online combines the two details together.
Now the fault clearly lies with the people who designed the form. There is absolutely no reason why the form can not clearly seperate the two and graying out one or the other in the field box (name and business name) if they know the claimant may be charged £100 later for amending the individual name over to business name only.
I was advised that as a claimant I was in no position to make a informed decision as to whether I agree to the £100 charge at the time before submitting the form so the fault lies with the people who created the form.
Now the problem is by paying the £100 I would make a loss as I am claiming £75 plus the £25 court fees and paying £100 essentially means the defendant has won the claim the case even before being considered by the court as now there would be no point in taking it any further if you are not going to get your money back without making a loss.
I have tried to contact Civil Money Claims Dept but they don't have a process in place to deal with my concerns but rather advisng me its up to me whether to pay the £100 and complete the N244 application process or not and can't advise any further.
Surely there must be a better way to sort this out so claimants are better informed at the beginning. Any advise?
The impression that I get is that the online form is kind of rather deceptive in some ways in order to make more money later.
Welcome to MSE.
Not sure how this relates to small biz and charities moneysaving, but not to worry.
I'm not sure we are allowed to give legal advice on this site, but as you know someone who works in Legal, surely they could try to assist you?
Why are you attempting to jointly claim from an an individual and a separate ltd company the recovery of £75 deposit paid? Presumably you only paid this to one single legal entity?
You appear to have completed the claim form wrong. You can make a claim online against either one or two defendants/legal entities.
You get the ability to review the claim before you confirm it to be correct & true and you submit it. Did you do that?
Unfortunately, court's time is expensive, and it will cost you £100 to apply to change the claim now you've submitted it if it was incorrect. The defendant does not get this money - it pays for the court to consider your application & (if accepted) correct your erroneous submission.
HMCTS is not a profit making organisation. In fact we all pay for it through our taxes. The fees the court charge to some users is only a contribution to their overall operating cost.0 -
Hi,
Thanks for the reply. To answer your questions....
"Why are you attempting to jointly claim from an an individual and a separate ltd company the recovery of £75 deposit paid? Presumably you only paid this to one single legal entity?"
I didn't complete the form wrong. I selected Ltd company only. The form asks to confirm individual and business name. Thats the issue. If someone selects Ltd, why are they asking for individual name? If someone selects individuals, why ask for business name especially when you know the claimant could be charged £100 later and then not advising? The field boxes should either be greyed out (very easy to do, any IT programmer can do this) or at least advise the claimants of this and likely fees in advance. Thats what ideally they should be doing and an ethical way of doing something.
"You can make a claim online against either one or two defendants/legal entities.
You get the ability to review the claim before you confirm it to be correct & true and you submit it. Did you do that?"
Yes I did. Its only against Ltd company and thats what I selected.
Point is the fault lies with the people who created the form and not advising claimants the correct information.0 -
It sounds as if you could phone the court and ask why they have not taken notice of your intention to claim from the limited company. No idea if that would work, it may be that they are confused.Signature removed for peace of mind0
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I use MCOL frequently and am generally on somewhat of an autopilot when putting the details in, but the way you described it just didn't sit correctly with me.
I've just logged in to my account and put a test claim through. I took a screenshot of the page where you enter the defendants details.
https://ibb.co/kQsjLYC
As you can see, if you select organisation it just asks for the organisations name and address. Are you sure you didn't inadvertently enter a second defendant?
The page that follows this is where you input your particulars of claim and then input the amounts you are claiming.
If it is user error then you would be unlikely to be able to recover the application cost so you may want to consider discontinuing the claim, but this may have cost consequences depending on what stage the matter is at.
If the other side haven't filed a defence you can re-issue the claim if you do opt to discontinue.0 -
You could also try the link below - I think they're quite good at advising on court procedure and completing the forms. I'm surprised you can't claim against two defendants(?) but maybe that's the case.
(Responses tend to be a bit slower than here).
https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/305-general-legal-issues/
EDIT: might be an idea to shorten your OP to the essential details, if you can. If they need more info, they'll ask.0 -
Manxman_in_exile wrote: »..I'm surprised you can't claim against two defendants(?) but maybe that's the case....
You can only claim against up to 2 joint defendants using MCOL.
You can have more joint defendants if you file direct to the court.
(or the County Court Money Claims Centre may be able to do it if you contact them)0 -
You can only claim against up to 2 joint defendants using MCOL.
You can have more joint defendants if you file direct to the court.
(or the County Court Money Claims Centre may be able to do it if you contact them)
Even then you can only have 2 defendants if they are both potentially liable. You can’t, for example, Sue a limited company and a director unless for some reason the director is also liable.0
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