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CEL Claim Defence

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  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,357 Forumite
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    My whole reason for defence is the severity of the PCN for 21 minutes where the driver was waiting to pick someone up from the bar adjacent to the carpark.
    Sorry, I’ve not ploughed through your defence, but the ‘severity of the PCN’ won’t wash, not since PE v Beavis. It’s pretty much a dead duck, unless you’ve got your brain fully around Beavis and can determine and articulate any cracks and attempt to squeeze your case through them.

    Alternatively, you swallow the ‘severity’ argument (the court won’t be interested in a semi rant), and look at some of the very recent CEL defences, that are much more likely to push CEL towards a discontinuance, and use these as your base for a winnable defence.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

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  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
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    I agree with the above

    all a PPC has to do is quote the BPA CoP they signed up to and that the SUPREME COURT takes as gospel 2 years ago in the BEAVIS case

    read clause #13 of the BPA CoP

    Compare 21 minutes to the council version of 10 minutes allowed to stay or go to get an idea

    its irrelevant if the vehicle was occupied or not, engine running or not

    There are much better defence points to be used than extremely weak arguments about what constitutes being "parked" or not
  • dan10k
    dan10k Posts: 26 Forumite
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    Umkomaas wrote: »
    Sorry, I’ve not ploughed through your defence, but the ‘severity of the PCN’ won’t wash, not since PE v Beavis. It’s pretty much a dead duck, unless you’ve got your brain fully around Beavis and can determine and articulate any cracks and attempt to squeeze your case through them.

    Alternatively, you swallow the ‘severity’ argument (the court won’t be interested in a semi rant), and look at some of the very recent CEL defences, that are much more likely to push CEL towards a discontinuance, and use these as your base for a winnable defence.

    I understand what you're saying - I think I just needed to sound it out. Obviously there are other defences in what I've already written.

    Am I right in assuming that I should have received a NTK? I never received anything titled as such. And if so, should this be high on the list of primary defences?

    As far as what I've already drafted, I assume this looks okay?

    Cheers.
  • Lamilad
    Lamilad Posts: 1,412 Forumite
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    My whole reason for defence is the severity of the PCN for 21 minutes where the driver was waiting to pick someone up from the bar adjacent to the carpark. The driver doesn't deny having pulled up in order to pick said person up
    To be clear - are you defending as keeper on the basis that either you were not the driver or you are holding them to strict proof as to who was driving?

    If you have not communicated with CEL about who was driving and they don't know then you should be defending as keeper only
  • dan10k
    dan10k Posts: 26 Forumite
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    CEL has ever produced any picture evidence of the contravention and I suppose I will be defending as keeper as I’ve never communicated with them about who was driving.

    As to the first question, I suppose the latter. Would it be more effective to claim the former?
  • dan10k
    dan10k Posts: 26 Forumite
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    Bumping for a response.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,747 Forumite
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    Defend in the latter way, as keeper saying they have not shown any evidence of the identity of the driver. Your defence looks good enough and this is all about playing the court game, doing the DQ next, then the WS (as explained in the NEWBIES thread) until CEL discontinue.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • dan10k
    dan10k Posts: 26 Forumite
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    Just a quick one.

    I've filled out and made 2 copies of the Directions Questionnaire.

    Does it matter if I send the copies to the court/CEL or do the court require the original perhaps?
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,654 Forumite
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    dan10k wrote: »
    Just a quick one.

    I've filled out and made 2 copies of the Directions Questionnaire.

    Does it matter if I send the copies to the court/CEL or do the court require the original perhaps?
    Post #7 on Bargepole's walkthrough thread, linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ thread, suggest the emailing the DQ to the court is perfectly in order, and even gives the email address.
  • dan10k
    dan10k Posts: 26 Forumite
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    Hi guys,

    Bit of an update - I got the following letters in December and January.

    imgur.com/a/vuOFD - hope this link works (is there a better way to share pics as a newer user?)

    I received the APOC on Saturday 20th January 2018 - technically a day late, and as you will see, the date on their letter is 19th January 2018, which was supposed to be the date they were to serve these to me by. I understand this may be a bit of lame duck defence, but is that worth mentioning going forward.

    I must admit I am a bit lost at this point as to how I should be responding with my own APOC. Can anyone point me in the right direction, or provide me some wisdom as to how I should best handle CEL's APOC?

    Many thanks.
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