Martin: Student loan statements are dangerous & misleading - so check out our redesign - MSE News
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Yes because rather a large proportion of shelf-stackers at Tesco are as likely to go to university or already are, and many of them do of course in order to support their inadequate personal economies whilst at university.callum9999 wrote: »Do you also have a good explanation as to why a shelf-stacker in Tesco should have contributed towards my university education, despite me immediately moving abroad and therefore not using it to benefit them or the UK in any way, shape or form?
Everyone who earns should be paying some tax including students. In the UK, they don't of course - some 4 or 5 million workers in UK pay no tax and the Tories bang on about that being a wonderful thing. The opposition politics ain't much better. How totally dumb is that ? What other developed country has such a large proportion of the workforce not even feeling that they contribute to their own country's infrastructure and services?
If students paid tax it might dawn on them what a decent tax system is supposed to provide forthe benefit of the whole country instead of grooming them to think only about themselves, feigning concern over the economies of those who don't want to or can't 'go uni', and of course paying as little tax as possible. If students were paid more than a pittance from exploiters like Tesco it would help them afford to pay tax of course, and if students also received a non-repayable but taxable government grant alongside free tuition fees then a whole lot more graduates like yourself might actually begin to learn how a properly taxpayer-funded country works and they might become proud of it, and of paying.
UK has THE most stupid LOW WAGE LOW TAX system that it makes you wonder what rot those PPE graduates from Oxford get their heads filled with these days, doesn't it? Oh sorry, perhaps you don't get it? Not your fault. You never learned what it was like to be much of a taxpayer as a student I guess? Too busy getting groomed to be a wage slave who is alright now, and doing nicely cos you are educated, eh Jack, so the poor other blighters can suck it up and can look out for themselves like you did, and who can expect them to want to pay for me if I ain't got no intention of paying for them?? How are you better than a shelf stacker anyway? Actually, you are not, are you because you have used the words in a derogatory manner without really appreciating who the shelf-stackers actually are. They are you my friend, more or less, and thats why everyone should contribute for the good of the future of this whole Godforsaken country up its creek and not just for those who get higher education but still don't "get it" when it comes to appreciating what marks out a country as well run as opposed to basket-case. :mad:0 -
Graduates already caught up in it certainly do not need to waste time reading how 9%+6%=15%, but on the other hand, your post might I suppose be a salient example of further misleading propaganda about the whole arrangement which prospective undergraduates might need to heed in order to give the whole dodgy system a miss.
I don’t know why you are blaming me for highlighting something that you feel people should be aware of. *shrugs*I'm a Forum Ambassador on The Coronavirus Boards as well as the housing, mortgages and student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.0 -
peterbaker wrote: »Yes because rather a large proportion of shelf-stackers at Tesco are as likely to go to university or already are, and many of them do of course in order to support their inadequate personal economies whilst at university.
Everyone who earns should be paying some tax including students. In the UK, they don't of course - some 4 or 5 million workers in UK pay no tax and the Tories bang on about that being a wonderful thing. The opposition politics ain't much better. How totally dumb is that ? What other developed country has such a large proportion of the workforce not even feeling that they contribute to their own country's infrastructure and services?
If students paid tax it might dawn on them what a decent tax system is supposed to provide forthe benefit of the whole country instead of grooming them to think only about themselves, feigning concern over the economies of those who don't want to or can't 'go uni', and of course paying as little tax as possible. If students were paid more than a pittance from exploiters like Tesco it would help them afford to pay tax of course, and if students also received a non-repayable but taxable government grant alongside free tuition fees then a whole lot more graduates like yourself might actually begin to learn how a properly taxpayer-funded country works and they might become proud of it, and of paying.
UK has THE most stupid LOW WAGE LOW TAX system that it makes you wonder what rot those PPE graduates from Oxford get their heads filled with these days, doesn't it? Oh sorry, perhaps you don't get it? Not your fault. You never learned what it was like to be much of a taxpayer as a student I guess? Too busy getting groomed to be a wage slave who is alright now, and doing nicely cos you are educated, eh Jack, so the poor other blighters can suck it up and can look out for themselves like you did, and who can expect them to want to pay for me if I ain't got no intention of paying for them?? How are you better than a shelf stacker anyway? Actually, you are not, are you because you have used the words in a derogatory manner without really appreciating who the shelf-stackers actually are. They are you my friend, more or less, and thats why everyone should contribute for the good of the future of this whole Godforsaken country up its creek and not just for those who get higher education but still don't "get it" when it comes to appreciating what marks out a country as well run as opposed to basket-case. :mad:
I must say, you're the first person I've ever seen who simultaneously argued for free university education and tax the poor!
You say that like it's a Tory thing... It's not - it's a UK thing. Virtually everyone agrees that the poor should be taxed much less than the rich. I've never come across anyone worried that they aren't contributing enough to the country, but if you want to assuage their guilt, you could assure them they pay many other taxes - VAT being a major one.
I know full well how the tax system works, and I fully support it... I pay taxes almost everyday - I'm struggling to see what I'm missing out on, maybe you could coherently tell me?
When did I ever say I'm better than a shelf stacker? You're the one being derogatory by claiming they don't contribute enough to the country. And I'm not "more or less" a shelf stacker, I was a shelf stacker for most of my "career".
You're the basket case here! Your arguments are absurdly incoherent and contradictory.0 -
Not true. You've apparently been educated yet you are the one using shelf stacker to imply inability to earn more or go to university. Now you admit to having been one just like I suggested. You are contradictory and inconsistent not me.callum9999 wrote: »Your arguments are absurdly incoherent and contradictory.
You are the one who cannot understand why every worker should be taxed or the fact it is scandalous that wages are so low that they are excused taxation as if that is some generous stance by HMG. I did not advocate taxing the poor. There should be no poor workers so all should be able to participate in taxation, same as every schoolchild who wants to, should be able to go on and participate in meaningful higher education free (if they want to) and to receive a non-repayable non-family means-tested (and ideally, taxable) grant to do so. Do you not agree?
Meantime it looks like you've been groomed.0 -
Sorry silvercar - I may have incorrectly interpreted your post as one supporting the scheme and justifying the effectively concealed 15% which essentially is a trap. If like me, you think that pre-university schoolchildren should be warned of the appalling discrimination therein against the best brains, then I thank you!I don’t know why you are blaming me for highlighting something that you feel people should be aware of. *shrugs*
As for those post- Bachelor students who have fallen into the HMG trap, I am sure they don't need to be reminded.0 -
peterbaker wrote: »Sorry silvercar - I may have incorrectly interpreted your post as one supporting the scheme and justifying the effectively concealed 15% which essentially is a trap. If like me, you think that pre-university schoolchildren should be warned of the appalling discrimination therein against the best brains, then I thank you!
As for those post- Bachelor students who have fallen into the HMG trap, I am sure they don't need to be reminded.
It's not concealed at all. Postgrad loans are a separate scheme. The government consulted on the repayment terms which were originally going to be a concurrent 18% repayment but they reduced this to 6% (15% joint):
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/479703/bis-15-573-support-postgraduate-study-response.pdf
Paragraph 17: "We have listened to concerns about concurrent repayments at 9% and have
decided to lower the postgraduate repayment rate to 6%"0 -
Oh so you are claiming a part in the appalling unfairness and discrimination now, Ed-1?It's not concealed at all. Postgrad loans are a separate scheme. The government consulted on the repayment terms which were originally going to be a concurrent 18% repayment but they reduced this to 6% (15% joint):
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/479703/bis-15-573-support-postgraduate-study-response.pdf
Paragraph 17: "We have listened to concerns about concurrent repayments at 9% and have
decided to lower the postgraduate repayment rate to 6%"0 -
peterbaker wrote: »Oh so you are claiming a part in the appalling unfairness and discrimination now, Ed-1?
I think it's perfectly reasonable for those who take out a further £11,000 (master's loan) and/or £26,000 (doctoral loan) to pay a bit extra. These students used to have to pay these fees in full up front before the postgrad scheme became available. I do however think it's inequitable for students in Scotland and Northern Ireland to be able to take postgrad loans and not have to pay the extra (there it's just lumped onto plan 1 debt).0 -
You are living in the dinosaur past. Just imagine if at the end of a 20 years ago first year of a best brain's Bachelor course (where there was still little need to strive for a Masters) the good news is that if you keep this up your are on for a first, but the bad news is that HMG think it is therefore equitable that if you get it (the first) at the end of your honours course you will then have to pay back your loan at a higher rate than those who don't do so well.I think it's perfectly reasonable for those who take out a further £11,000 (master's loan) and/or £26,000 (doctoral loan) to pay a bit extra. These students used to have to pay these fees in full up front before the postgrad scheme became available. I do however think it's inequitable for students in Scotland and Northern Ireland to be able to take postgrad loans and not have to pay the extra (there it's just lumped onto plan 1 debt).
The use of the term postgrad is evidence of a dinosaur thinking. You need it to draw some imaginary line between normalcy and excellence in academic achievement so you can discriminate to suit your skewed agenda, and if you Ed-1 have any formal part in the administration of higher education of our young people then I despair.
Normalcy in 2019 includes best brains rationalising that they will very likely need a Masters degree in order to stand out in the crowded job-search market so they'd probably be best advised not to stop at a Bachelor degree and to stay on another year or two. The one amongst my friends and family I alluded to earlier in the thread was still only 22 when he finished his Masters! And you say what exactly ? ... (try not to use the postgrad word in your explanation - it is meaningless ...0 -
peterbaker wrote: »You are living in the dinosaur past. Just imagine if at the end of a 20 years ago first year of a best brain's Bachelor course (where there was still little need to strive for a Masters) the good news is that if you keep this up your are on for a first, but the bad news is that HMG think it is therefore equitable that if you get it (the first) at the end of your honours course you will then have to pay back your loan at a higher rate than those who don't do so well.
The use of the term postgrad is evidence of a dinosaur thinking. You need it to draw some imaginary line between normalcy and excellence in academic achievement so you can discriminate to suit your skewed agenda, and if you Ed-1 have any formal part in the administration of higher education of our young people then I despair.
I am a postgrad student! And my undergrad repayments are at the plan 1 threshold so my overall repayment will be even bigger.0
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