Biz has really taken off but I'm in a bit of a muddle with how to pay myself

sarahgd · 3 December 2019 at 7:53PM

Hi All,

Firstly, I'm thankful for any advice.

I have an online business thats really taken off in the last year, we sell hair accessories.

This has been my only job so I thought paying myself would be nice and easy... turn out it is, but doing it properly is another thing all together!

So I'm paying myself £12,500 paye this year and making the rest up with dividends, so far I've taken £37,500 which takes me up to £50,000 for the year as things stand. This means I've stayed within my personal allowance, contributed my NI payments etc and also taken div at 7.5%. All seems relatively ok so far, although I'm sure I'll soon be corrected.

If I were to look to take further money out this year how would be the most tax efficient way of doing this?

If I take divs the tax band goes upto 32.5% and technically I'll be paying 19% corporation tax as well so its over 50% in effect?

If I take more PAYE, I'll still be within my basic rate PAYE allowance of 20% up until i reach £50,000 allowance and then it rises to 40%? So this is where I'm getting confused... Do I need to add my divs and PAYE income together for Income tax or keep them separate?

And If I increase my PAYE I guess I'll be technically paying more as I'll have to include NI (both employers and employees).

I hope the drivel above makes sense? I really don't mind paying the tax, I just want to make sure I do it as efficient as possible.

Hope someone can help :beer:

Thanks.

S

Pennywise · 3 December 2019 at 8:00PM

With divs, you don't pay over 50% because your dividends are after the 19% corporation tax. So, say £10,000 profit, corporation tax £1,900, balance £8,100 paid out as dividends and taxed at 32.5% (2632,50) so your net after tax is £5467.50, tax approximately 45%.

If you pay PAYE, you pay employers NIC on top of employees NIC and then 20% income tax, BUT, it would push some of your dividends into the 32.5% dividend tax higher rate band, so will cost you more than 45% in combined tax and NIC, so the answer is dividends for the balance over £50k.

gdrforest · 3 December 2019 at 8:36PM

Have you paid company contributions into a personal pension? That removes the contributions from all taxes.

sarahgd · 3 December 2019 at 9:00PM

Pennywise, Thanks for your email. I understand what you mean with divs, CT and div tax, I was just giving rough numbers.

I think the penny has no dropped (excuse the pun), I didn't realise that div rates we're effectively aligned with PAYE rates... basic, higher and additional! I thought it was just separate tax rates which didn'g hand in hand with PAYE.

Is there ever an instance where it makes sense to pay yourself PAYE over divs?

Thanks again.

sarahgd · 3 December 2019 at 9:01PM

gdrforest - this is something we're doing but and I know I could put a lot more through but I wouldn't be able to touch it until we're 55 which puts me off at the moment.

00ec25 · 4 December 2019 at 8:54AM

sarahgd wrote: »

Is there ever an instance where it makes sense to pay yourself PAYE over divs?.

perhaps it may help if you understand that "income" is taxed in a rigid order. Think of a column, the bottom comprises employment income, pensions etc, the middle is (in simple terms) rental profits etc, whilst the top comprises dividends. This gives rise to the saying dividends are "top slice income"

obviously as you go up the column you cross the various the tax thresholds, so if you were to pay yourself high earnings what you also have to remember is you cross NI thresholds, and NI applies to both you personally and your company from which you taking the money.

So as owner/director of your own company, the answer to your questions in a word is: no

high earnings result in employee NI (@ 2% in higher rate bracket) and employer NI (13.8%), neither of which are payable in dividends.
Yes NI ER is a cost for the company against its profits, and obviously so is gross pay, but overall, whilst tax rules remain as is, dividends are always more tax efficient than pay, but obviously carry the risk that they can only be paid from profits, so can vary yr/yr

sarahgd · 4 December 2019 at 4:46PM

00ec25 - Thats great, Its really helped to get my head round things.

I'm really reluctant to take out any further money this year as I'll be paying close to half of what I take in tax, If I can manage I think I'll opt for extra pension payments for the long term and keep some excess cash in the biz as like you say trading can and will vary yoy.

In the longer term has anyone looked at alternative methods to invest monies such as the EIS scheme, buying assets through the biz, investment funds etc?

The more i read its absolutely fascinating.

katy123 · 4 December 2019 at 5:26PM

An alternative of paying yourself is to look at pension contributions directly via the ltd company, all CT deductable.

nmn · 4 December 2019 at 6:14PM

EIS, SEIS, VCT all have good tax relief but you need to have paid the tax first before you can get it back - and its not specific to being a company director. Certainly paying yourself, in order to pay the tax, in order to claim it back is good planning - although buyer beware its not risk-free

As others say, pension the max. 40k/year is a good idea

So long as the scheme still exists, ER is very efficient once you close down the co. https://www.gov.uk/entrepreneurs-relief

Savvy_Sue · 4 December 2019 at 8:06PM

This is something where you might really benefit from talking to your accountant, who knows YOUR business and YOUR situation. Getting it wrong may be costly.

Biz has really taken off but I'm in a bit of a muddle with how to pay myself

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