50th time lucky - voluntary euthanasia

missile wrote: »

If someone really wants to go, it is not difficult and can be painless.

Are there any methods available to an ill or elderly mostly-homebound person that are painless? I doubt it.

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I don't think there is any "failsafe" - whichever way we go. Whether it be the current way of not accepting people have the right to say "enough is enough" or the future way of saying "Your choice - if/when you decide".

I know there are casualties the current way of Society not allowing this yet - and it seems there is a very high number of casualties looking at it this way.

I fear there might be a few casualties once we have this right.

I can't think of any appropriate precautions that can be taken to prevent emotional pressure by the unscrupulous (possibly the NHS trying to save itself money:cool:) or the greedy (someone that knows there is a Will they might benefit from). Obviously there must be whatever precautions we can think of inbuilt into giving us this right (when we finally have it:cool:) and there will still, doubtless, be a few casualties with the best will in the world.

But I would estimate there will be a lot fewer "casualties of the system" the future way than the absolutely loads of "casualties" there are the present way.

.....and, yes, the NHS is spending a lot of money on people that actually don't want money spent on them at all - as they personally have made the decision to go, but arent being allowed to have it.

It is along time since suicide was treated as a crime, changed in the 60s I think. If you want to do it then do but why make a fuss about it?

I'm planning on getting my telegram from King William.

Nobody suggested you stay around to get you telegram, you can check out anytime you like, your choice.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about helping a very sick relative if they couldn't do it themselves, if they are very sick and under the care of a doctor I don't think anyone is going to be investigating too much and if they do you just do the distraught and devoted partner/child/sibling and a jury is more than likely going to find you not guilty, that is if the CPS even bother to prosecute. I think that strikes a balance between making it too easy for family to bump off a sick relative because they have ulterior motives and being too gung ho about prosecuting them.

The guidelines are not to prosecute unless undue influence has been used. Between 2009 and 2017 136 cases of assisted suicide have been recorded, the CPS decided not to proceed with 85 of them and the police withdrew 28. There has been one successful prosecution. Not bad odds. If you read up on some of the cases where the CPS has decided not to proceed it is clear that the person did assist and indeed if you have a look at the CPS website it clearly states that in more than one case there was clear evidence that they had assisted in a suicide but did not prosecute as it was not in the public interest.

I think the whole dignified death of a pet without suffering is a bit of a myth. I was with my dog when she died and it was horrific and she fought it. She was very ill and I couldn't believe how strongly she fought and two of us couldn't hold her and the sound of her skull hitting the floor as she pulled away from us and then collapsed will haunt me forever.

PP. hate to say this but it just sounds like an incompetent vet. There is no need for an animal to suffer the way your poor dog did. They have an array of sedatives and drugs at their disposal.

Similarly, There is no earthly reason why humans should suffer either.

Many of you will know about my husbands Ilness so I won’t rehash it I will just skip to his and my Parents deaths.

I managed to get him and my mother excellent end of life care. They both slipped away peacefully in nursing homes, without pain and surrounded by dedicated carers and their family.

My father was not so lucky. His death was horrific. He died in hospital on a noisy open ward, no privacy, no dignity and cared for by complete strangers. He had 8 beds in three weeks.

What we really need is joined up thinking, sufficient hospice provision and enough dedicated medical professionals and carers who are fully trained in end of life care.

We also need a sensible discussion and a nationwide consensus about “where do we go from here”. As medicine becomes ever more sophisticated and complex we have to ask ourselves one simple question. “At what point do we stop interventions, withdraw treatment and concentrate on palliative care”

My husband directed his own care, he completed an advance directive and I had a health and welfare POA for him just in case. He determined what treatments were unacceptable to him and when to give in. For example he made it quite clear that he did not want a trachiectomy and a jpeg for feeding, so that once he lost his swallow mechanism that would be the signal for his body to shut down. He also gave clear and firm instructions that he did not want to be hospitalised again.

My mother was not really compus mentis and she did not complete an advance directive or grant poa. Luckily she had a wonderful, very kind and understanding GP who agreed to allow mum to remain in the nursing home rather than be transferred to a hospital and who wrote up sufficient drugs to keep my mother in an induced coma until she slipped away. The nurses in the home were well trained and monitored her very carefully to ensure she remained comfortable and pain free.

My father was not so fortunate. I begged my sister to transfer him to the same nursing home and to allow the medics to stop treating him and let him die. She and her husband fought me over this and Insisted he remain in hospital where he was subjected to a further two weeks of painful and invasive treatments, although it was obvious he was dying, in extreme pain and that the treatments were exacerbating his distress.

I believe it is well beyond time for a change in the law. People should be empowered to make their own decisions and direct their own end of life care.

It is not enough to say “oh they can commit suicide” No they can’t. It is not that simple.

Firstly, Most people don’t know how to do it safely and for want of a better word “efficiently”. There are far too many bodged attempts which leave the patient in even worse pain and distress. I can give you examples of suicide attempts gone wrong, but I won’t because they are too graphic and distressing for a public forum.

Secondly, there are those who are too ill to do it for themselves and who need assistance.

We are an intelligent species, it is not beyond our capabilities to build sufficient checks and balances into the system to guard against abuse or coercion.

It’s time governments stopped passing the buck. This Is a nettle that has to be grasped. The sooner the better.

and to Purple Pixie
I forgot to say that I was so sorry to hear of your experience- truly memorable , and in the worst way. (Really it's unforgiveable of me- as I should have started my reply with that very thought....)