Letter Before Claim - SCS Law & UKPC - CASE WON!

CVKTA · 3 January 2019 at 5:43PM

That is interesting...
I may look at following your method / route of contesting.
Best of luck to you!
Please let me know if any responses come through then that would be appreciated.

DAngel · 3 January 2019 at 5:47PM

give it a go, and make sure you tailor it to your own situation. Also start your own thread if you're worried about it and the experts on here are super helpful when it comes to advice. Good luck with yours too.... will update this thread if I hear any more, but really hoping I won't!

DAngel · 15 January 2019 at 3:06PM

low and behold another response has come through, a casual 2 months later, after I allotted them 30 days to respond.

Re: UK Parking Control Ltd

We write further to your email below having now obtained our client's instructions.

Our client has instructed us that the site in question was managed by XX Property Management as managing agents on behalf of the landowner. Our client operated on the site until June 2018. The 15 parking charge notices were issued against your vehicle between 17 April 2014 to 8 September 2016 and therefore our client was still authorised to manage parking at the site pursuant to their contract with the managing agent.

In your email below you assert that there was no 'consideration' and therefore in your view no contract was formed with our client. As explained in our email dated 12 October 2018, an offer is made by the signage present at the site and upon entering the site, you agreed to abide by the terms and conditions of parking, as per the signage. Please note, the provision of the parking space for you to park your vehicle is seen as consideration. Accordingly, you entered into a contract by conduct with our client.

Although, the photographs demonstrate that there was a plant located near the signage erected at the site, it is our client's position that the signage was not completely covered and the terms and conditions were still clearly legible. In addition, please find attached an annotated site map which shows the multiple locations that the signage was erected at the site (including near the entry and the exit). Accordingly, you should have been aware of the terms and conditions when parking at the site.

Our client has instructed us that it is the managing agents (and not our client) who inform the residents of any parking schemes being implemented at the site and therefore you need to raise this with your managing agent as to whether any notices were sent to the residents, as our client is not able to comment on this point.

Please note, following the Supreme Court decision in the matter of ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67, the Claimant is not required to claim for a genuine pre-estimate of loss, where a parking charge notice was validly issued and where it was issued in pursuit of a legitimate interest, which, in this case, was the effective management of parking at the site. Our client does not consider there to be a breach under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as per the above.

We note that you wish to file a counterclaim for trespass, harassment, private nuisance and/or data misuse, if our client decides to pursue this matter to court. Please note, our client will deny all of the allegations listed. Our client had the authority to manage parking (and issue parking charge notices) against vehicles that were not parked in accordance with the terms and conditions set out on the signage erected throughout the site. In addition, our client has a legitimate interest (and are authorised) to obtain your details as the registered keeper of the vehicle from the DVLA.

Lastly, in respect of your request to provide you with a copy of the consultation and an advance notice, we assume that you are referring to s.37 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 (variation of the lease) and/or s.20 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 (consultation of major works) - both of which do not apply to this matter. Nevertheless, can we please ask that you please provide us with a copy of your leasehold agreement?

We look forward to hearing from you within 14 days.

The fact that they say they were operating at the site until 2018 is utter rubbish as I was part of a parking committee in 2017 that fought against the new operater, namely PCM. UKPC were revoked some time before that, maybe even 2016.

UKPC have just been reinstated by the property management company so are now patrolling again which is complete pain and doesnt help the situation. I did take photos of the PCM signs before they were taken down, but trying to find some proof of the time they operated there.

This is getting very tiresome now and just want them to go away, does anyone have any more advice on what I can say next?

Thanks

Coupon-mad · 15 January 2019 at 3:19PM

State this back to them and tell BW Legal that UKPC have misled them on dates:

The fact that they say they were operating at the site until 2018 is utter rubbish as I was part of a parking committee in 2017 that fought against the new operator, namely PCM. UKPC were revoked some time before that, maybe even 2016.

...and give them an extract of your lease only, a page that says you had a right or easement to park.

Tell them that UKPC had a duty to exercise due diligence before infesting (*use that word) this car park and you would have expected that they had already scrutinised the Head Lease. If they were negligent and did not carry out any diligence to protect the rights & remedies of existing tenants and leaseholders with rights and grants to park, you suggest UKPC get hold of a copy themselves, given they are in contact with the Managing Agents who have failed residents and a re jointly and severally liable for the abject misery and distress caused by this harassment and private nuisance of unwarranted demands for money from ex-clampers imposed against the will of residents.

Tell them that s.37 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 (variation of the lease) certainly applies and you are considering suing UKPC and the MA jointly and will send a LBC shortly.

Your MA need suing. They obviously don't care. UKPC then PCM, now UKPC again, why?!

nosferatu1001 · 15 January 2019 at 3:50PM

"Please note, the provision of the parking space for you to park your vehicle is seen as consideration."

So ask them how they "provided" the parking space? You already had a right to park due to... and as such, need no third party to "provide" a space that was already yours to park in.

DAngel · 10 February 2019 at 1:38PM

As yet i've not had the opportunity to draft my full response to SCS Law, taking note of your helpful advice above, as have been unwell with stress and anxiety and have also been abroad.

I did send them a placeholder implying I was seeking legal advice.

In the meantime, i received this note on Thursday last week:

I note that you are currently obtaining legal advice but please find attached a copy of the lease ("the Lease") that our client has obtained in respect of the site in question.

I refer you to Schedule 8 (Part 1) clause 20 on page 23 of the Lease, which states that the lessee must comply with and make all reasonable endeavours to ensure that all persons living in or visiting the demised premises or using the allocated parking spaces shall comply with the estate regulations. The estate regulations are defined on page 4 of the Lease as 'any reasonable regulations made by the manager from time to time for the proper management and use of the estate'. In addition, clause 7.4 on page 10 of the Lease confirms that the manager has the power to make and at any time vary the estate regulations for the general convenience of the occupiers of the dwellings.

Schedule 8 makes it clear that you need to comply with the estate regulations when using the parking spaces. Therefore, it is our client's position that these regulations included the implementation of a parking scheme and therefore the parking charge notices were validly issued against your vehicle, as you were parked in breached of the terms and conditions.

In light of the above, it is our client's position that you are liable for the parking charge notices for the total sum of £2,250.00.

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

As a tenant who rents, I have never been in possession of this lease (apart from now as it is attached to the email), but my landlord would be i presume?

Just not sure what the next course of action is?

Coupon-mad · 10 February 2019 at 9:02PM

I refer you to Schedule 8 (Part 1) clause 20 on page 23 of the Lease, which states that the lessee must comply with and make all reasonable endeavours to ensure that all persons living in or visiting the demised premises or using the allocated parking spaces shall comply with the estate regulations.

You haven't told us what Sch 8 actually says (not their interpretation).

If you are a tenant then your right to park comes from your tenancy agreement. That is what you can rely upon as your primacy of contract.

You can't be held liable for your landlord apparently/allegedly breaching his/her lease, and if that is alleged then that's a matter for the Managing Agent and overall landowners of the site.

Obviously you need to reply to that letter, no running away/not replying.

What did you find on this forum when you read all the threads that also cited this exact wording from leases, because yes, we've seen it before and there are several threads where people have already debunked that drivel:

any reasonable regulations made by the manager from time to time for the proper management and use of the estate

Clue - try searching the forum for Union Jack.

DAngel · 17 February 2019 at 6:25PM

Hi guys, quick q as im in the swing on writing my reply (thanks for you steer by the way) but was wondering what my chances are of UKPC actually discontinuing at this LBC stage? We're having all this back and forth at the moment and just trying to quantify the worth of all the emails if they're going to end up sending me a CCC anyway.... at which point, i will pour my energy into my defence and hopefully win.

Got a little more confidence the other day when reading a few more similar and successful threads although most of those were from Claim stage and not LBC stage.

Do I continue to reply to these emails and defend myself, or do I just save my energy and time and defend at CCC stage?

Let me know thoughts!

Coupon-mad · 17 February 2019 at 6:27PM

I would send them as much info at this stage as possible, because that positively helps you at court hearing stage. You can show you made every effort to resolve the dispute and UKPC certainly knew you had primacy of contract - and were sent evidence - but bullied you into defending a court claim.

DAngel · 24 February 2019 at 5:04PM

Ok, i've done a fair amount of research and have read the Lease that they sent me and pulled together my response which I will be sending today or tomorrow. Please do have a look through and let me know if there is anything else that I could include.

It appears your client has misled you on the dates that they operated as I was part of a residents committee in November 2016 that fought against another operator, not UKPC, being revoked and so have proof that UKPC must have only operated on the road until c.October 2016. I suggest you get your client to confirm.

UKPC had a duty to exercise due diligence before infesting this car park and I would have expected that they had already scrutinised the Head Lease. If they were negligent and did not carry out any diligence to protect the rights & remedies of existing tenants and leaseholders with rights and grants to park, I suggest UKPC get hold of a copy themselves, given they are in contact with the Managing Agents who have failed residents and are jointly and severely liable for the abject misery and distress caused by this harassment and private nuisance of unwarranted demands for money from ex-clampers imposed against the will of residents.

S.37 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 (variation of the lease) certainly applies and I am considering suing UKPC and XXXX Managing Agent jointly and will send an LBC shortly.

I am not and never have been in possession of the Lease agreement that you sent via email, as a tenant, I abide by my tenancy agreement, which makes no mention of any restrictions being in place, and as the tenancy included access to the car park, with no further restrictions, your client has no rights to introduce these separately.

Your client does not have any contractual or other lawful authority to make contracts with residents at this location, and/or to bring proceedings against me. I aver that your client requires the permission of the landowner, not merely the site agent not in possession in order to commence proceedings.

Your clients signs cannot override the existing rights enjoyed by residents and their visitors and parking easements cannot retrospectively and unilaterally be restricted where provided for within the lease.

I refer you to D7GF307F - UKCPM v Mr D - before Deputy District Judge Skelly on 1st February 2018 at Clerkenwell, a similar thin excuse of an argument from a private parking firm inflicting a nuisance on residents & visitors was dismissed. When not sitting as a Judge, DDJ Skelly is a barrister specialising in property law. The managing agents were named as a party to the lease, and there was a clause which said that they could make regulations for the 'comfort and convenience' of lessees. However, this could not excuse a change as intrusive and onerous as to override the grant of free resident/visitor parking, effectively restricting and charging for a right previously enjoyed, without the required consensus and deed of variation. It would be like the agents suddenly stipulating that residents had to hang a UnionJack out of the window whenever they were at home; clearly unreasonable and not in the interests of the consumer.

Having read through the Lease that you sent me, that I was not previously in possession of due to being a tenant, I refer you to the Fourth Schedule and Rights included in the demise where it states that the Lessee and the tenant or occupiers of the Demised Premises his or their employees and visitors (in common with all other persons having the like right) have the right to go pass and re-pass at all times and for all purposes of access to and egress from the Demised Premises and the Allocated Parking Space(s) and the Visitors Parking Spaces only with or without vehicles (as appropriate) over and along the Accessways and those parts of the Communal Areas and Facilities over which it is intended for access to be available and in the case of the Demised Premises being a flat served by the Internal Common Areas then the right to use the Internal Common Areas.

Thoughts and comments welcome....

Letter Before Claim - SCS Law & UKPC - CASE WON!

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