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PIP Report - So angry
LucyNorthern
Posts: 13 Forumite
Hi all
So I may be a bit ahead of the process but I am so angry at the moment......
In another thread I've explained how I am helping my brother, we got to the stage of the PIP assessment, after I knew the report had gone back to the DWP I requested a copy, it arrived this morning, and there is so much that was said or discussed at the assessment appointment that has just simply not made it on to the report I am dumbfounded....
I am going to sit and go through it from start to finish and add comments or correct the information in readiness to appeal this decision as the report is just not correct, it is not a true representation of what happened or what was said at the assessment.
For example;
At no point in the report has he recorded that I stay there every 2nd night, or that I visit every day, that I do all his cleaning and shopping, that I go to all his appointments with him etc. The only reference to me id that I keep his medication due to his negative thoughts and that I look after his pets.
Nutrition, they have ticked that he can take nutrition unaided, which would make it 0 points, however, I have to prompt him to eat and even then I have to make sure he eats it all or at least enough. If I leave something in the fridge or on the side for him I have to contact him to make sure he eats.
Has put him down as behaved normally and has normal short term memory, nothing at all about his attention and unable to focus on tasks or how forgetful he is. I do all his paperwork and bills because he struggles to think it through, he has stated he can count change, he only uses his card on wireless so he doesn't have to, I do all his shopping so he has used his card I think once in the last year on his own.
He noted him as not anxious at interview with no specialist intervention and that his low dose antidepressant is effective, not hostile an that he engages... This is not always the case.... The assessment day was a very good day and it was partly to the fact we had time to prepare to get him out of the house. He has panic attacks, gets very anxious and has avoided even family events as a result. If he gets in to that state then he gets very upset but he is naturally a very quiet man, so even his frustration is doen in sweaty silence... His corner shop is opposite his house, as in out of the front door over the path over the road over the path and in to the shop door... but he cant do it, so I totally disagree with the recording of the conversation. It was as though the assessor was in a different room for that part?
He needs prompting to make complex budget decisions... how when I am the one who does everything... he cannot handle anything, we told him no post gets opened apart from by me, he cant figure out what he has what needs paying... I have it all set up and I deal with it.... He cant even buy milk on his own IF he was in a shop....
Then on to mobility, and I am just so confused as to how he got to his decision of he can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided.... he has written down problem reported is inconsistent although there is mental health diagnosis associated medication he can and does go out. he only reports symptoms of anxiety, not anxious with good insight, can ring for help if lost, no evidence of OPD. Where do I start, he only goes out with me or our other sister, it takes forever to get him ready to go out, he panics, the assessor asked him "hypothetical question if you were out and lost" our response was... but he wouldn't be out.. he kept replying "hypothetically if you were" how can we answer that when its something that wouldn't happen, so the closest answer he got was that he would call me....what else would he say, we said the other reason he doesn't go out unaccompanied is because of the negative thoughts he has about walking in to traffic if he was near a road, there was no recording about the involvement with a counselor, the fact that the mediation is in mid change so being increased, no mention of the crisis team.... So much more I could say that I am sure you all are already filling in for me.
So................. I am gutted is the best way I can sum it all up.... Its not that the assessor hasn't understood what we said it is actually that he has not recorded what we said. At one point I did say to him I feel as though we have missed things, he summarised some of it and I said I am sorry I am interrupting, he said no you are here to help make sure it is all recorded....... so where is it all recorded because I cannot see it.
If I go on what has been ticked, then it would bring my brother out at 11 points for the daily living and 4 for the mobility. I think it should be totally different, the 11 is almost a conscientious "not 12".
At the assessment, the assessor was unwell, he kept coughing all the way throughout the appointment, obviously not his fault but would appear he has not concentrated fully and not recorded everything. Do I mention this?
Should I send my concerns in now before the decision makers look at it, or do I wait until they make a decision, and then depending on what the decision they make is then send something in....if I do would it hold up the claim, if they decide on an entitlement and I dont agree and want to appeal does it put a hold on any payments???
Feel so deflated right now.....:(:(:(:(:(:(
So I may be a bit ahead of the process but I am so angry at the moment......
In another thread I've explained how I am helping my brother, we got to the stage of the PIP assessment, after I knew the report had gone back to the DWP I requested a copy, it arrived this morning, and there is so much that was said or discussed at the assessment appointment that has just simply not made it on to the report I am dumbfounded....
I am going to sit and go through it from start to finish and add comments or correct the information in readiness to appeal this decision as the report is just not correct, it is not a true representation of what happened or what was said at the assessment.
For example;
At no point in the report has he recorded that I stay there every 2nd night, or that I visit every day, that I do all his cleaning and shopping, that I go to all his appointments with him etc. The only reference to me id that I keep his medication due to his negative thoughts and that I look after his pets.
Nutrition, they have ticked that he can take nutrition unaided, which would make it 0 points, however, I have to prompt him to eat and even then I have to make sure he eats it all or at least enough. If I leave something in the fridge or on the side for him I have to contact him to make sure he eats.
Has put him down as behaved normally and has normal short term memory, nothing at all about his attention and unable to focus on tasks or how forgetful he is. I do all his paperwork and bills because he struggles to think it through, he has stated he can count change, he only uses his card on wireless so he doesn't have to, I do all his shopping so he has used his card I think once in the last year on his own.
He noted him as not anxious at interview with no specialist intervention and that his low dose antidepressant is effective, not hostile an that he engages... This is not always the case.... The assessment day was a very good day and it was partly to the fact we had time to prepare to get him out of the house. He has panic attacks, gets very anxious and has avoided even family events as a result. If he gets in to that state then he gets very upset but he is naturally a very quiet man, so even his frustration is doen in sweaty silence... His corner shop is opposite his house, as in out of the front door over the path over the road over the path and in to the shop door... but he cant do it, so I totally disagree with the recording of the conversation. It was as though the assessor was in a different room for that part?
He needs prompting to make complex budget decisions... how when I am the one who does everything... he cannot handle anything, we told him no post gets opened apart from by me, he cant figure out what he has what needs paying... I have it all set up and I deal with it.... He cant even buy milk on his own IF he was in a shop....
Then on to mobility, and I am just so confused as to how he got to his decision of he can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided.... he has written down problem reported is inconsistent although there is mental health diagnosis associated medication he can and does go out. he only reports symptoms of anxiety, not anxious with good insight, can ring for help if lost, no evidence of OPD. Where do I start, he only goes out with me or our other sister, it takes forever to get him ready to go out, he panics, the assessor asked him "hypothetical question if you were out and lost" our response was... but he wouldn't be out.. he kept replying "hypothetically if you were" how can we answer that when its something that wouldn't happen, so the closest answer he got was that he would call me....what else would he say, we said the other reason he doesn't go out unaccompanied is because of the negative thoughts he has about walking in to traffic if he was near a road, there was no recording about the involvement with a counselor, the fact that the mediation is in mid change so being increased, no mention of the crisis team.... So much more I could say that I am sure you all are already filling in for me.
So................. I am gutted is the best way I can sum it all up.... Its not that the assessor hasn't understood what we said it is actually that he has not recorded what we said. At one point I did say to him I feel as though we have missed things, he summarised some of it and I said I am sorry I am interrupting, he said no you are here to help make sure it is all recorded....... so where is it all recorded because I cannot see it.
If I go on what has been ticked, then it would bring my brother out at 11 points for the daily living and 4 for the mobility. I think it should be totally different, the 11 is almost a conscientious "not 12".
At the assessment, the assessor was unwell, he kept coughing all the way throughout the appointment, obviously not his fault but would appear he has not concentrated fully and not recorded everything. Do I mention this?
Should I send my concerns in now before the decision makers look at it, or do I wait until they make a decision, and then depending on what the decision they make is then send something in....if I do would it hold up the claim, if they decide on an entitlement and I dont agree and want to appeal does it put a hold on any payments???
Feel so deflated right now.....:(:(:(:(:(:(
0
Comments
-
LucyNorthern wrote: »..., if they decide on an entitlement and I dont agree and want to appeal does it put a hold on any payments?
Just to pick up on this point. If an award is made that award is paid while any appeal is in process. If the decision is changed as the result of the appeal the revised decision is then backdated and any arrears due paid.
Information on the challenge process is here https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/problems-with-benefits-and-tax-credits/challenging-a-benefit-decision/Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.0 -
LucyNorthern wrote: »Hi all
So I may be a bit ahead of the process but I am so angry at the moment......
In another thread I've explained how I am helping my brother, we got to the stage of the PIP assessment, after I knew the report had gone back to the DWP I requested a copy, it arrived this morning, and there is so much that was said or discussed at the assessment appointment that has just simply not made it on to the report I am dumbfounded....
I am going to sit and go through it from start to finish and add comments or correct the information in readiness to appeal this decision as the report is just not correct, it is not a true representation of what happened or what was said at the assessment.
For example;
At no point in the report has he recorded that I stay there every 2nd night, or that I visit every day, that I do all his cleaning and shopping, that I go to all his appointments with him etc. The only reference to me id that I keep his medication due to his negative thoughts and that I look after his pets.
Nutrition, they have ticked that he can take nutrition unaided, which would make it 0 points, however, I have to prompt him to eat and even then I have to make sure he eats it all or at least enough. If I leave something in the fridge or on the side for him I have to contact him to make sure he eats.
Has put him down as behaved normally and has normal short term memory, nothing at all about his attention and unable to focus on tasks or how forgetful he is. I do all his paperwork and bills because he struggles to think it through, he has stated he can count change, he only uses his card on wireless so he doesn't have to, I do all his shopping so he has used his card I think once in the last year on his own.
He noted him as not anxious at interview with no specialist intervention and that his low dose antidepressant is effective, not hostile an that he engages... This is not always the case.... The assessment day was a very good day and it was partly to the fact we had time to prepare to get him out of the house. He has panic attacks, gets very anxious and has avoided even family events as a result. If he gets in to that state then he gets very upset but he is naturally a very quiet man, so even his frustration is doen in sweaty silence... His corner shop is opposite his house, as in out of the front door over the path over the road over the path and in to the shop door... but he cant do it, so I totally disagree with the recording of the conversation. It was as though the assessor was in a different room for that part?
He needs prompting to make complex budget decisions... how when I am the one who does everything... he cannot handle anything, we told him no post gets opened apart from by me, he cant figure out what he has what needs paying... I have it all set up and I deal with it.... He cant even buy milk on his own IF he was in a shop....
Then on to mobility, and I am just so confused as to how he got to his decision of he can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided.... he has written down problem reported is inconsistent although there is mental health diagnosis associated medication he can and does go out. he only reports symptoms of anxiety, not anxious with good insight, can ring for help if lost, no evidence of OPD. Where do I start, he only goes out with me or our other sister, it takes forever to get him ready to go out, he panics, the assessor asked him "hypothetical question if you were out and lost" our response was... but he wouldn't be out.. he kept replying "hypothetically if you were" how can we answer that when its something that wouldn't happen, so the closest answer he got was that he would call me....what else would he say, we said the other reason he doesn't go out unaccompanied is because of the negative thoughts he has about walking in to traffic if he was near a road, there was no recording about the involvement with a counselor, the fact that the mediation is in mid change so being increased, no mention of the crisis team.... So much more I could say that I am sure you all are already filling in for me.
So................. I am gutted is the best way I can sum it all up.... Its not that the assessor hasn't understood what we said it is actually that he has not recorded what we said. At one point I did say to him I feel as though we have missed things, he summarised some of it and I said I am sorry I am interrupting, he said no you are here to help make sure it is all recorded....... so where is it all recorded because I cannot see it.
If I go on what has been ticked, then it would bring my brother out at 11 points for the daily living and 4 for the mobility. I think it should be totally different, the 11 is almost a conscientious "not 12".
At the assessment, the assessor was unwell, he kept coughing all the way throughout the appointment, obviously not his fault but would appear he has not concentrated fully and not recorded everything. Do I mention this?
Should I send my concerns in now before the decision makers look at it, or do I wait until they make a decision, and then depending on what the decision they make is then send something in....if I do would it hold up the claim, if they decide on an entitlement and I dont agree and want to appeal does it put a hold on any payments???
Feel so deflated right now.....:(:(:(:(:(:(
I am wondering what medical evidence was sent in with the PIP application.
A lot of what you have said is, of course, very important but two things stood out for me that can be evidenced professionally - crisis team and change of medication. Plus the assessor was unwell.
I am in two minds about this as to whether it is important to 'pre-empt' any decision that is made or whether to wait for the decision and then use all your excellent points as part of your mandatory reconsideration.
Mmm what do others think? Worth a telephone call or would this delay things or even trigger another assessment or would it all be ignored?
Perhaps it would hinge on the medical evidence sent. Did this refer to the crisis team /change of medication?
If medical evidence was sent then the decision maker should 'flag up' the omissions - on the other hand...……………
Thoughts from others?0 -
Just to pick up on this point. If an award is made that award is paid while any appeal is in process. If the decision is changed as the result of the appeal the revised decision is then backdated and any arrears due paid.
Hi Calcotte
Thank you, that's actually a weight off my mind for any eventuality.0 -
Hipmlindyloo wrote: »I am wondering what medical evidence was sent in with the PIP application.
A lot of what you have said is, of course, very important but two things stood out for me that can be evidenced professionally - crisis team and change of medication. Plus the assessor was unwell.
I am in two minds about this as to whether it is important to 'pre-empt' any decision that is made or whether to wait for the decision and then use all your excellent points as part of your mandatory reconsideration.
Mmm what do others think? Worth a telephone call or would this delay things or even trigger another assessment or would it all be ignored?
Perhaps it would hinge on the medical evidence sent. Did this refer to the crisis team /change of medication?
If medical evidence was sent then the decision maker should 'flag up' the omissions - on the other hand...……………
Thoughts from others?
Thank you for your reply... has to be said the idea of it triggering a reassessment fills me with dread and that's only because I would have to prepare my brother fro it along with the actual getting him there again.... But if it is needed it is needed.
The evidence refers mainly to his back operation and medication, I wrote a letter to PIP aboput the change in his antidepressant as I knew that would happen between the form going in and the assessment taking place.
Would it be best to request the GP write a letter about the crisis team and medication as the involvement with the team has been via phone, the therapy was as a result of the GP intervention.
I guess I just wasn't sure if my voicing my concerns at the report not being a true reflection would be a good idea before the decision maker started?0 -
Basically you have two options:
1. Wait until you have the decision and then do a Mandatory Reconsideration and Appeal if necessary. Collect further evidence from the doctor.
Or
2. Telephone the DWP and tell them your concerns -see if there can be some kind of intervention before a decision is made. e.g telephone call to your brother's doctor.
Unsure of timelines but it could be that a decision has already been made which will mean option 1.
You may get a helpful person when you telephone or you could get someone who says 'you can do an appeal if you are unhappy with the results'.
In all honesty I suspect they will say about appealing.
The fact that there was no written evidence about the change of medication and the crisis team does suggest that your hopes of intervention may be slim.0 -
I guess that the chances of speaking to a Decision Maker on the phone are slim, and I doubt if anything you say to anyone else would get passed on effectively. But you can usefully gather medical evidence whilst you wait.
If you need to do a MR, then concentrate on the descriptors and in what ways your brother cannot achieve the tasks safely, reliably and in a reasonable time scale.0 -
My inclination would be to wait until you get the decision, and then follow the appeal procedure if you need to.
In the meantime:
a) See if your local advice agency has capacity to help with an appeal;
b) write a sheet (to include with the MR) setting out exactly what help you give your brother around the PIP activities and why -
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/831253/PIP-assessment-guide-part-2-the_assessment-criteria.pdf
This is likely to repeat some the PIP2 form points, but repetition is no bad thing as it may show the assessment scoring to be inconsistent.
Also get other family members / friends / etc to confirm the care needs of your brother.
(This all stacks up the evidence to show the assessment is flawed);
c) As others have said see if you can get further medical / health care professional evidence. Would your brothers medical records held by his GP be helpful?
This is likely to refer to the intervention by the crisis team, etc.
https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/about-the-nhs/how-to-access-your-health-records/
(Increasingly tribunals are tending to request medical records if uncertain)
This is a good guide to the PIP appeal process:
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
And for the MR:
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/challenge-a-decision-made-by-the-department-for-work-and-pensions-dwp
On the MR concentrate on the PIP activities (rather than the assessor) - don't let your anger with the assessment stop you from presenting a clear picture of your brothers day-to-day needs around these activities;
This site has a very detailed appeal guide (but costs c.£20 annual membership):
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-appeals
It is particularly good around case law and interpretation of PIP descriptors.
(Reliability is hugely important - safely, to an acceptable standard, etc).Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.0 -
https://pipinfo.net/ also has some case law for the descriptors and the concepts, probably not as in-depth as benefitsandwork and generally without commentary but the published decisions are enlightening nevertheless.0
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Although IAS are a huge part of the problems with PIP the summary of ‘reliability’ on their website is, in my opinion, succinct and clear https://www.mypipassessment.co.uk/news/what-are-the-reliability-criteria-that-are-used-during-the-pip-assessment/Alice_Holt wrote: »(Reliability is hugely important - safely, to an acceptable standard, etc).Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.0 -
Totally agree with this. OP you should also add a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time he attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to him.Alice_Holt wrote: »On the MR concentrate on the PIP activities (rather than the assessor) - don't let your anger with the assessment stop you from presenting a clear picture of your brothers day-to-day needs around these activities;0
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