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Joey96
Posts: 7 Forumite
Hello to everyone, I am writing on behalf of my 91 year old grandfather. I am not sure if I am writing in the correct section so please move if needed.
Basically, my grandfather has some very old (70yo) deeds to some land, this land is empty however is owned / held by the council. He always knew he owned this land however could not find the deeds until recently.
My question is, is this land now long gone? Do these deeds mean anything? Is there any way he can try and claim for the land?
I hope there is someone that can offer a little light before we spend money on a solicitor.
Thank You in Advance
Jo
Basically, my grandfather has some very old (70yo) deeds to some land, this land is empty however is owned / held by the council. He always knew he owned this land however could not find the deeds until recently.
My question is, is this land now long gone? Do these deeds mean anything? Is there any way he can try and claim for the land?
I hope there is someone that can offer a little light before we spend money on a solicitor.
Thank You in Advance
Jo
0
Comments
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Have you asked the council?
They may be leasing it? Maybe it was sold years ago - deeds don't mean ownership.0 -
I'm guessing that the first step here would be to check with the Land Registry and see what information they have on the ownership of this land.
On the other hand - if the Council have/are just trying to purloin the land - then maybe there will be something in the Council minutes and/or in local newspaper reports of Council proceedings giving some information about this. Also it may be that there is a longstanding Councillor for the area concerned and they might know/remember something about this.0 -
Thank you for your responses, I have literally only just taken it upon myself to help him as another family member was 'helping' but just doing nothing about it and hes 91 now. We haven't approached the council as of yet, I will get some more information on the land registry. It's sad that the deeds don't mean ownership as this land was passed down his family. I have just started seeking opinions on where he would stand or if there is any point in pursuing it.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to reply :-)0 -
Im not saying that it definitely doesn't mean he owns it. Just that it could've been purchased at some point - not casting aspersions but he's 91, there's a chance he's forgotten it was sold?Thank you for your responses, I have literally only just taken it upon myself to help him as another family member was 'helping' but just doing nothing about it and hes 91 now. We haven't approached the council as of yet, I will get some more information on the land registry. It's sad that the deeds don't mean ownership as this land was passed down his family. I have just started seeking opinions on where he would stand or if there is any point in pursuing it.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to reply :-)0 -
Im not saying that it definitely doesn't mean he owns it. Just that it could've been purchased at some point - not casting aspersions but he's 91, there's a chance he's forgotten it was sold?
Thank you, I will certainly do some more digging.
I understand why you would think that however if you knew him you would know that there's no way he has sold it without knowing, he was working until last year, as fit as a fiddle, and still driving us round the bend :-)0 -
Yes but then why does he not know why the council is using his land?Thank you, I will certainly do some more digging.
I understand why you would think that however if you knew him you would know that there's no way he has sold it without knowing, he was working until last year, as fit as a fiddle, and still driving us round the bend :-)
Not having a go, but it doesn't really make sense
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He is just on his way over so I will hopefully have some more information, I have only been told the information re the council by the person who was meant to be helping him before so maybe this is incorrect :-)0
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You will need to look at the deeds to see:
1. is there a conveyance of the land to your grandfather?
2. if there is, then does it have a Land Registry stamp on it with a title number? Sometimes the property is registered and the owner simply keeps the old pre-registration deeds because they are no longer needed.
You can do an index map search at the Land Registry to fin dout if the title is registered and if it is then you can get copies of the entries which will show who the owners is.
If the Council bought the land off your grandfather then they should have the deeds. If they bought after the area became an area of compulsory registration then they will have a registered title - hence the need to do the index map search.
If it is thought the Council are merely using the land - unless it could be part of a highway - then they would have to show adverse possession to claim a title in that way. If the area is open and nothing is going on there and they are no obvious means of preventing others going on it then such a claim would not be likely to succeed.
So do the index map search!RICHARD WEBSTER
As a retired conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful assuming any properties concerned are in England/Wales but I accept no liability for it.0 -
I have had my grandfather round and he has bought a lot of documents, he does have the original conveyance documents and deeds however I cannot see a title number on these at all. He has all the other documentation from when he purchased the land and has explained to me the following information.
- He purchased the land in 1965 and has all the conveyance documents and deeds
- The land had a cowshed and piggeries on it, he paid to get electric installed and rented out to a car dealer until 1993 when they stopped paying rent, he went to find out why and the tenants had disappeared. During this time the cottages next to his land were bought by the council and knocked down, he was still renting out his land at this time.
- A few months later the cowsheds a piggeries were demolished by the council, he contacted them to advise that this was his land and they paid him £500 compensation ( we are trying to find the letter from the council )
- In 1996 he took proceedings against the council via a solicitor, I have all the documentation from his solicitor and the council and they have basically said that they purchased the land in question and have sent over conveyance documentation that does not correspond with my grandfathers land. At this time his solicitor said he had a very good case however the council were playing hard ball and not responding to enquiries, sending back irrelevant information in turn this built up a bill of over £5000 that my grandfather paid, he then had to stop any further action as he run out of money and could not afford the costs.
He can now afford to proceed however was wondering if he would still have a case this number of years later, the land now had foot paths through it and the right of way that used to fit cars has been blocked. A patch of land nearby for roughly the same size is for sale at £825,000.
I have printed out the documents for the HM Land registry title search but my fear is that these will state that the council own it, we also don't have a definite address.
Any further advise would be very much appreciated.
Kind Regards0 -
I have had my grandfather round and he has bought a lot of documents, he does have the original conveyance documents and deeds however I cannot see a title number on these at all. He has all the other documentation from when he purchased the land and has explained to me the following information.
- He purchased the land in 1965 and has all the conveyance documents and deeds
- The land had a cowshed and piggeries on it, he paid to get electric installed and rented out to a car dealer until 1993 when they stopped paying rent, he went to find out why and the tenants had disappeared. During this time the cottages next to his land were bought by the council and knocked down, he was still renting out his land at this time.
- A few months later the cowsheds a piggeries were demolished by the council, he contacted them to advise that this was his land and they paid him £500 compensation ( we are trying to find the letter from the council )
- In 1996 he took proceedings against the council via a solicitor, I have all the documentation from his solicitor and the council and they have basically said that they purchased the land in question and have sent over conveyance documentation that does not correspond with my grandfathers land. At this time his solicitor said he had a very good case however the council were playing hard ball and not responding to enquiries, sending back irrelevant information in turn this built up a bill of over £5000 that my grandfather paid, he then had to stop any further action as he run out of money and could not afford the costs.
He can now afford to proceed however was wondering if he would still have a case this number of years later, the land now had foot paths through it and the right of way that used to fit cars has been blocked. A patch of land nearby for roughly the same size is for sale at £825,000.
I have printed out the documents for the HM Land registry title search but my fear is that these will state that the council own it, we also don't have a definite address.
Any further advise would be very much appreciated.
Kind RegardsRichard_Webster wrote: »You will need to look at the deeds to see:
1. is there a conveyance of the land to your grandfather?
2. if there is, then does it have a Land Registry stamp on it with a title number? Sometimes the property is registered and the owner simply keeps the old pre-registration deeds because they are no longer needed.
You can do an index map search at the Land Registry to fin dout if the title is registered and if it is then you can get copies of the entries which will show who the owners is.
If the Council bought the land off your grandfather then they should have the deeds. If they bought after the area became an area of compulsory registration then they will have a registered title - hence the need to do the index map search.
If it is thought the Council are merely using the land - unless it could be part of a highway - then they would have to show adverse possession to claim a title in that way. If the area is open and nothing is going on there and they are no obvious means of preventing others going on it then such a claim would not be likely to succeed.
So do the index map search!0
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