UKCPS "Without a valid P&D Ticket" IAS appeal won!

bluetoffee1878 · 3 March 2018 at 11:16AM

I don't start too many new threads, as I have been here a while and been quite successful with various appeals, POPLA and county court, but I'm not sure if I'm missing something here.

Situation is: this is for a friend of a colleague who has a leased vehicle

Driver parked in a UKCPS P&D car park, bought a ticket and displayed said ticket as per T&C

Lease company receive NTK within 3 days of the parking 'incident'. Transgression was "without a valid P&D ticket (or pre pay arrangement)". They then transfer liability to colleagues friend who then receives a Notice to Hirer. (same doc different title)

The Hirer/Keeper sends a bit of a wishy washy appeal to UKCPS (before being aware of the help available from this forum).

Usual rejection of appeal, but UKCPS have included a timestamped photo of the P&D ticket in the windscreen showing that there was approx 1.5 hours left before expiry from the time stamp on the photo.

I am not keen on an IAS appeal, as I have done one before with the help of Couponmad which should have been a slam dunk win but they came up with some perverse decision to reject.

So basically UKCPS have provided evidence in their own rejection of the keepers appeal that they should not have issued the PCN.

Any thoughts?? IAS appeal maybe

Thanks for reading
Bluetoffee

Umkomaas · 3 March 2018 at 11:39AM

As the NtK was issued within 3 days this looks like an ANPR camera capture linked with the correct input of the VRM. If there was any minor (or major) slip-up in the input of the digits - bang, NtK.

Did the Notice to Hirer come with a copy of the hire agreement, as per PoFA Schedule 4, Paras 13 and 14?

Obviously your contact needs to hang on to the original P&D ticket.

Is your contact also copping for a tasty admin charge for dealing with the NtK by the lease company - he/she needs to watch for that too.

bluetoffee1878 · 3 March 2018 at 12:02PM

Umkomaas wrote: »

As the NtK was issued within 3 days this looks like an ANPR camera capture linked with the correct input of the VRM. If there was any minor (or major) slip-up in the input of the digits - bang, NtK.

That was my initial thought but It wasn't ANPR, just a bloke with a camera phone. Pics taken approx half an hour after the car was parked and with 1.5 hours left before expiry.

Umkomaas wrote: »

Did the Notice to Hirer come with a copy of the hire agreement, as per PoFA Schedule 4, Paras 13 and 14?

I haven't seen it but Ill check

Umkomaas wrote: »

Obviously your contact needs to hang on to the original P&D ticket.

Absolutely - plus the pic UKCPS sent him showing the ticket displayed in the vehicle

Umkomaas wrote: »

Is your contact also copping for a tasty admin charge for dealing with the NtK by the lease company - he/she needs to watch for that too.

Yep I told him to check for that - he says that they don't issue admin charges, they just notify the hirer/keeper and the PPC.

Fruitcake · 3 March 2018 at 1:13PM

In this case I might be tempted to go for an IAS appeal, centring on the fact that the PPC have proved the PCN should never have been issued.

The vehicle hirer should also complain to the DVLA with the PPC's own evidence stating that there was no valid reason to obtain keeper details, and thus a breach of the DPA has occurred.

Obviously a complaint to the hirer's MP should also be done.

These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

These are the exact words used, so the hirer should quote them to their MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he/she wants further information about this scam.

bluetoffee1878 · 3 March 2018 at 1:22PM

Fruitcake wrote: »

In this case I might be tempted to go for an IAS appeal, centring on the fact that the PPC have proved the PCN should never have been issued.

Thanks Fruitcake - yes that was my initial thought on this one, just wanted some of the regulars opinions hence the thread.

Fruitcake wrote: »

The vehicle hirer should also complain to the DVLA with the PPC's own evidence stating that there was no valid reason to obtain keeper details, and thus a breach of the DPA has occurred.

Have advised the person to do this, and also the landowner

Fruitcake wrote: »

Obviously a complaint to the hirer's MP should also be done.

That's been done.

Fruitcake wrote: »

These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

These are the exact words used, so the hirer should quote them to their MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he/she wants further information about this scam.

Yes I watched this with interest last month, and pointed my MP in Sir Greg's direction.

fisherjim · 3 March 2018 at 2:15PM

This is a bit strange are you sure this isn't a car park bordering on another car park where two machines are close by but for different companies?

There are a couple on Milton Keynes like this.

bluetoffee1878 · 3 March 2018 at 5:56PM

fisherjim wrote: »

This is a bit strange are you sure this isn't a car park bordering on another car park where two machines are close by but for different companies?

There are a couple on Milton Keynes like this.

Good point I hadn’t considered that
The p&d ticket which I’ve seen the photo of doesn’t seem to have any identifying marks pertaining to which PPC

The_Deep · 3 March 2018 at 5:57PM

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences.

Parking Eye, Smart and a smaller company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (who take hundreds of these cases to court, and nearly always lose), who have also been reported to the regulatory authority.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
You never know how far you can go until you go too far.

Coupon-mad · 4 March 2018 at 2:08AM

I vote for IAS appeal in this unusual case, too, unless the driver bought a Council ticket or something daft! Have they still got that ticket, for you to look at?

bluetoffee1878 · 4 March 2018 at 2:25PM

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I vote for IAS appeal in this unusual case, too, unless the driver bought a Council ticket or something daft! Have they still got that ticket, for you to look at?

Hi CM!
Yes that was my initial thought to go for an IAS appeal.

I!!!8217;m not familiar with the car park in question, but I!!!8217;m going to try and check it out this week. I would think that council p&d tickets would have some Liverpool city council logo or other distinguishing mark.

The driver unfortunately does not have the ticket, but UKCPS in their rejection of his appeal sent him a pretty good close up pic of the ticket displayed showing approx 1.5 hours left before expiry.

Also the !!!8216;offence!!!8217; on the NTK was for not displaying a valid p&d ticket which he obviously did, and UKCPS have provided him the proof of that lol.

Guys_Dad · 4 March 2018 at 2:59PM

Does the close up of the ticket not indicate which car park? But this is a definite appeal to IAS, not mentioning any other adjacent car parks.

A single point, factual appeal is best and let's see how IAS squirm here!

UKCPS "Without a valid P&D Ticket" IAS appeal won!

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