co-executor refusing to transfer agreed money to his beneficiary daughter

getmore4less · 5 February 2018 at 8:02PM

The beneficial interest can be established to the grandchildren through actions, bare trust is one of the more common examples* of the type that can be created.

Have a read on constructive trusts.

If the accounts were nominee they were trusts anyway.

It could be the money was never really part of the estate.

Might give a new angle on trying to help the current shortchanged grandkid.

* if you give someone money to go get/buy something(eg drinks at a bar) end expect the change then a bare trust is created, you retain the beneficial interest even though the person has the money.

jackyann · 6 February 2018 at 10:46AM

NKR, I am confused. Previous posts imply:

Your father set up accounts ( different uses of the word 'trust' seems to be confusing matters) in the names of each of his 3 grandchildren.
He transferred all of this into his name at the point her gave 'L' her share.
At his death, the money intended for 'T' & 'F' was in his name, bequeathed to his 2 sons, with the intention that they would pass it on.

However post #21 implies (I think) that he only transferred 'L's money.

Have you considered my suggestion of an informal approach to your brother, suggesting that his daughter has now matured sufficiently for him to re-consider? Or is there another family member who might be able to make that approach?

nom_de_plume · 6 February 2018 at 12:06PM

jackyann wrote: »

NKR, I am confused. Previous posts imply:

Your father set up accounts ( different uses of the word 'trust' seems to be confusing matters) in the names of each of his 3 grandchildren.
He transferred all of this into his name at the point her gave 'L' her share.
At his death, the money intended for 'T' & 'F' was in his name, bequeathed to his 2 sons, with the intention that they would pass it on.

However post #21 implies (I think) that he only transferred 'L's money.

Have you considered my suggestion of an informal approach to your brother, suggesting that his daughter has now matured sufficiently for him to re-consider? Or is there another family member who might be able to make that approach?

I'm equally confused.

I read it as there were originally 3 accounts (1 in the name of each grandchild). One got used for house purchase but the other 2 were still in existence at the time of father's passing. Executors then transferred them to executors' account and then subsequently the brother transferred his daughter's entitlement to his own account and has since failed to then give her the funds. All the talk of 50:50 split of the residue has just served to muddy the waters.

OP - Are the grandchildren mentioned in the will?

jackyann · 6 February 2018 at 12:36PM

I don't think that the accounts intended for T & F could have been in their names at the time of grandfather's death, or they would have simply been handed over.
OP has said they were not mentioned in the will.

Although I don't think OP has been completely clear, I think his issues around the split, and therefore the money he can legitimately claim, are to do with his feeling of responsibility to his niece. She has not received the money that is morally hers, whereas her cousins have.

getmore4less · 6 February 2018 at 5:27PM

The first thing to do is establish the real beneficial ownership of those accounts, which may be different to the legal owner.

NKR · 9 February 2018 at 1:30PM

Let me try & answer some of the questions.
I apologise if I have used the word "trust" confusingly, since the accounts were with "Alliance Trust Savings" (alliancetrust.co.uk). In future I'll refer to this simply as ATS. This is not a trust.
As far as I know, the money in the 3 named accounts remained his. This is corroborated by the behaviour of ATS when during the probate/execution process, they treated all 4 account (3 grandchildren & his own) the same, and we transferred all to the Executor account. I think it is much like with Lloyds Bank, I have multiple accounts & can name them as I wish - eg "Holidays", "Car Account" etc.
@jackyann - he only transferred "L"'s money, while he was alive, as she had an immediate need, buying a house. The other 2 were not yet at that stage, and so the money remained in the accounts until he died.
Only my brother were named in the will as beneficiaries & co-executors.
I have tried informal approaches to my brother, but these have been very rudely rebuffed, by my brother and his wife in what can only be described as a hysterical manner. It is clear that their intention is to use the money as leverage over their daughter, with whom they have a dysfunctional relationship.

unforeseen · 9 February 2018 at 2:09PM

If you have had the rest of your 50% then the only thing your brother owes you is £2500 being half the difference between what you took for your son and what he took for his daughter.

As this was a 50/50 split with only wishes about the grandchildren's money then it is just a moral dilemma for your brother and nothing you can do to force him to abide by the wishes

NKR · 9 February 2018 at 5:46PM

@unforeseen - thanks. Would you suggest the best way for me to recover this is via a small claims court, since I have tried & failed to communicate with my brother? I have a copy of all the communication attempts.

unforeseen · 9 February 2018 at 6:01PM

TBH I don't really know the best way to tackle it. Compared to the rest of the legacy that you received is it worth a fight or just let it go?

NKR · 9 February 2018 at 6:08PM

I would gift the money to the niece. It would be a "start" on her inheritance. It is a point of principle, as I believe my brother has behaved in a reprehensible manner. Having recently move to London, she is facing some financial challenges (rental deposit etc), so this would make a material difference to her.

co-executor refusing to transfer agreed money to his beneficiary daughter

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