PCN from CEL at Hospital Site

billythefish1 · 27 May 2017 at 10:02PM

Dear Members,

My wife received through the post a PCN for allegedly not paying for parking at a hospital showing photos entering at 10:07 and leaving at 10:28. The PCN is not to Registered Keeper but it does state in the small print it is the drivers responsibility to pay the fine. Nothing about Keepers' liability. I've read a few of the posts about CEL and it seems they do take you to court and use cowboy debt collectors and solicitors.

What are the grounds for appeal other than signage and the fact the letter arrived after the 14 days it is supposed to from the offence.

Also the pictures of the car do not have date/time stamp - does that help?

I'm guessing she should be using this template letter - anything else to add?

Yet again I welcome your valued input.

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

Redx · 27 May 2017 at 10:05PM

I do not believe that the pcn included the word "fine" anywhere in the text, not even in the small print

she should just use the blue text template letter , as is , as keeper , keeping any appeal points for popla

and

she should complain to PALS asap as an occupant of the vehicle (not as driver) and get them to cancel it, quoting the government guidelines at them

do not reveal who was driving

billythefish1 · 27 May 2017 at 10:29PM

Hi Redx - you're right a typo, the letter I posted is a cut and paste from the newbies. Also, they never sent the letter within the required 14 days and looks like they haven't used the standard template letter.

Coupon-mad · 27 May 2017 at 10:31PM

With CEL, the newbies appeal template should work first time. If not, the keeper wins at POPLA anyway.

Redx · 27 May 2017 at 10:32PM

so no keeper liability then , hence a strong reason not to reveal who was driving

keep the powder dry for popla and you will see the appeal points in the NEWBIES sticky thread post #3 , use as many as possible, she only has to win on one point

so appeal with the blue text , to get a popla code, then hit them at popla

but the best method for cancellation is a PALS complaint

billythefish1 · 28 May 2017 at 9:10PM

I've amended the letter slightly to beef it up - what's your thoughts everyone? Also, any templates for complaints to PALS?

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

This PCN fails in multiple ways to comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. By sending me, the registered keeper, a demand, you have failed to comply in multiple places. You failed even to provide any evidence of parking. However, a fatal failure is your lack of compliance with delivery.

I draw your attention to the paragraphs of Schedule 4:

Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle
4 (1) The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle.
(2) The right under this paragraph applies only if—
(a) the conditions specified in paragraphs 5, 6, 11 and 12 (so far as applicable) are met

6 (1) The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—
(b) has given a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 9.

9 (1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(4) The notice must be given by—
(b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

Your letter was dated 15th May 2017 and allowing two working days for post would mean that it was received by the my as the keeper of the vehicle on the 17th May 2017. Some 18 days after the specified period of parking ended. This is a fatal flaw in Law, of which you are now aware. I require that your PCN is cancelled. I require written confirmation that you have cancelled this PCN.

Any further action on my part to confirm that the claim has been cancelled, or to demonstrate your non-compliant activities, including to POPLA, and/or Court defence, and/or time spent taking you to Small Claims Court, will make you liable for my time at my Contract rate of £100/hour.

Yours faithfully,

Redx · 28 May 2017 at 9:52PM

I do not think you will get away with charging £100 per hour in the small claims arena

the typical court claim allowance is about £18 per hour

Coupon-mad · 28 May 2017 at 11:52PM

The above beefed up first appeal is fine. CEL will skedaddle!

billythefish1 · 29 May 2017 at 7:09PM

OK - I'll remove the last paragraph - any decent PALS complaint template letters on here? I couldn't find one.

Coupon-mad · 29 May 2017 at 7:17PM

No but I reckon you will find some if you search for 'PALS NHS principles Government' which will show you similar threads where people have complained to PALS and ranted about the NHS Trust allowing a regime that is actually disallowed by Government policy.

PCN from CEL at Hospital Site

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