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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Helen
    • By Former MSE Helen 5th Feb 14, 10:33 AM
    • 2,324Posts
    • 971Thanks
    Former MSE Helen
    MSE News: Been affected by London's Tube strike? You won't get ticket refunds
    • #1
    • 5th Feb 14, 10:33 AM
    MSE News: Been affected by London's Tube strike? You won't get ticket refunds 5th Feb 14 at 10:33 AM
    "Passengers hit by Tube delays and cancellations during this week's strike can't get a refund..."

    Read the full story:

    Been affected by London's Tube strike? You won't get ticket refunds



    Click reply below to discuss. If you havenít already, join the forum to reply. If you arenít sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.

Page 1
    • William Barnes
    • By William Barnes 5th Feb 14, 11:18 AM
    • 21 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    William Barnes
    • #2
    • 5th Feb 14, 11:18 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Feb 14, 11:18 AM
    So can you claim a refund from the unions?
    • MS1950
    • By MS1950 5th Feb 14, 12:10 PM
    • 324 Posts
    • 517 Thanks
    MS1950
    • #3
    • 5th Feb 14, 12:10 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Feb 14, 12:10 PM
    "Passengers hit by Tube delays and cancellations during this week's strike can't get a refund..."

    Read the full story:

    Been affected by London's Tube strike? You won't get ticket refunds



    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply. If you aren’t sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.

    Originally posted by MSE Helen
    It's a bit ironic that the refund procedure for 'standard' delays (i.e. not caused by strike action) is:

    "With Tube and London Overground claims, you'll get a voucher which can be redeemed at Tube and Overground stations",

    when the current strike is about the planned closure of ticket offices....
    • Mishomeister
    • By Mishomeister 5th Feb 14, 6:12 PM
    • 834 Posts
    • 198 Thanks
    Mishomeister
    • #4
    • 5th Feb 14, 6:12 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Feb 14, 6:12 PM
    I strongly disagree that the delay is out of their control. It was in their control to either satisfy the demands of the strikers or to recruit people who will not strike over their fantastic reward packages(such as £30,000 salary for cashiers or a free travelcard for a partner)

    I wish there could be someone who could organize a massive court case against TFL. I would be willing to contribute towards legal costs hence if there were thousands of people suing together cost per person would be minimal.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 5th Feb 14, 6:49 PM
    • 18,660 Posts
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    wealdroam
    • #5
    • 5th Feb 14, 6:49 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Feb 14, 6:49 PM
    Mishomeister, I see you have chosen to ignore my reply to your other thread.

    You knew full well that a strike was planned, yet you still went ahead and bought a weekly ticket knowing that service would be restricted for some of that time.

    Tell us again why you think you should be compensated when the service you were likely to receive was clear when you made your purchase?
    • Mishomeister
    • By Mishomeister 5th Feb 14, 6:56 PM
    • 834 Posts
    • 198 Thanks
    Mishomeister
    • #6
    • 5th Feb 14, 6:56 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Feb 14, 6:56 PM
    Mishomeister, I see you have chosen to ignore my reply to your other thread.

    You knew full well that a strike was planned, yet you still went ahead and bought a weekly ticket knowing that service would be restricted for some of that time.

    Tell us again why you think you should be compensated when the service you were likely to receive was clear when you made your purchase?
    Originally posted by wealdroam
    a) It has not been made 100% clear by TFL the strikes will definitely go ahead.
    b) Yes I did buy a travelcard. Yes I did feel it will save me money comparing to PAYG. The travelcard however did not provide me with the full value of my money as it would when there is no strike.

    I am not trying to insist that TFL should refund 50% of the ticket price however 20% would be reasonable.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 5th Feb 14, 7:55 PM
    • 18,660 Posts
    • 15,598 Thanks
    wealdroam
    • #7
    • 5th Feb 14, 7:55 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Feb 14, 7:55 PM
    a) It has not been made 100% clear by TFL the strikes will definitely go ahead.
    b) Yes I did buy a travelcard. Yes I did feel it will save me money comparing to PAYG. The travelcard however did not provide me with the full value of my money as it would when there is no strike.

    I am not trying to insist that TFL should refund 50% of the ticket price however 20% would be reasonable.
    Originally posted by Mishomeister
    20% refund?

    That's significantly more that two days worth of travel... remember, it is a seven day ticket you bought.

    The strike is only due to last two days, and during those two days buses, trams, national rail, river buses and DLR are still running.

    OK, it must be inconvenient without the tube, but I'll say it again... you knew this inconvenience was coming when you bought your ticket.

    Even if we ignore that last sentence, and we ignore the fact that the strike is not TfL's fault, and bear in mind that buses, trams, national rail, river buses and DLR are still running, then I would suggest to you that a refund of around 5% would be more appropriate.
    • Mishomeister
    • By Mishomeister 5th Feb 14, 8:19 PM
    • 834 Posts
    • 198 Thanks
    Mishomeister
    • #8
    • 5th Feb 14, 8:19 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Feb 14, 8:19 PM
    20% refund?


    Even if we ignore that last sentence, and we ignore the fact that the strike is not TfL's fault
    Originally posted by wealdroam
    Why do you say the strike is not TFL's fault?

    Do I give the money directly to Tube Drivers?

    No, I pay huge fees to TFL and by doing so I am honoring my part of the service contract by paying.

    TFL don't care where did I get the money from neither would they care if I didn't have money. Why should I care of their reasons?

    Could TFL avoid train delays if there was a storm? No they couldn't as they have no control over weather issues. Therefore here your statement about non TFL's fault would be applicable.


    Has TFL done everything to avoid strike to happen? No they haven't.
    I understand that the main issue of the strike is because Tube drivers do not want to be working in the nigh time.
    TFL could just recruit people to works at night shifts all the time.
    This would mean existing staff continuing as it is and also more people getting jobs.
    If the things were done this or any other way satisfying workers the strike would've never happened.
    It is therefore TFL's fault that the tube is not functioning propertly.

    If you were to buy something online from say Homebase and this was never delivered or delivered broken to you would expect Homebase to refund your money, wouldn't you? Even if it was courier company fault you would not care as your contract was with Homebase.

    So the only difference here is that TFL is a monopolist and people like myself have little or no alternative to it.
    If my mobile stopped working for 3 days two weeks in a row I wouldn't give a sh*t about the reason why this has happened and would've just switched to another company. This is not however the case with TFL.
    Last edited by Mishomeister; 05-02-2014 at 8:36 PM.
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 5th Feb 14, 9:09 PM
    • 18,660 Posts
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    wealdroam
    • #9
    • 5th Feb 14, 9:09 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Feb 14, 9:09 PM
    No, I pay huge fees to TFL and by doing so I am honoring my part of the service contract by paying.
    Originally posted by Mishomeister
    How many times do I have to say "you knew you were buying a reduced service when you bought your ticket".

    Has TFL done everything to avoid strike to happen? No they haven't.
    I understand that the main issue of the strike is because Tube drivers do not want to be working in the nigh time.
    TFL could just recruit people to works at night shifts all the time.
    Originally posted by Mishomeister
    Oh... I thought the main issue was job losses.

    Although not my newspaper of choice, here is how The Independent described it today:
    The two-day strike was called by The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport workers (RMT) and the Transport Salaried Staffs' Association (TSSA) unions to protest against job losses and plans to close manned ticket offices as part of the modernisation of the 151-year-old network.
    Surely an employer would be crazy to hire extra staff when their intention is to reduce the number of staff?


    It is therefore TFL's fault that the tube is not functioning propertly.
    Originally posted by Mishomeister
    If you say so.
    I don't agree, but even if we accept your point of view, why do you still think you deserve a 20% refund?

    If you were to buy something online from say Homebase and this was never delivered or delivered broken to you would expect Homebase to refund your money, wouldn't you? Even if it was courier company fault you would not care as your contract was with Homebase.
    Originally posted by Mishomeister
    If you were to buy a table from Homebase and at the time of purchase they said "oh, it only has three legs but still the same price". You respond with "that's OK, I'll take it".
    You then have no reason to complain about it.

    Because that is exactly what you have done when you bought your ticket knowing that there would be a reduced service but accepted the purchase price.
    • Mankysteve
    • By Mankysteve 5th Feb 14, 10:03 PM
    • 4,115 Posts
    • 2,926 Thanks
    Mankysteve
    Could you sue Boris for breaking and election promise?
    Last edited by Mankysteve; 06-02-2014 at 9:53 PM.

    • haynick
    • By haynick 5th Feb 14, 10:52 PM
    • 439 Posts
    • 477 Thanks
    haynick
    Use Boris?
    No he is useless!!
    The forum police are here. To protect & criticise.
  • billse
    It's a bit ironic that the refund procedure for 'standard' delays (i.e. not caused by strike action) is:

    "With Tube and London Overground claims, you'll get a voucher which can be redeemed at Tube and Overground stations",

    when the current strike is about the planned closure of ticket offices....
    Originally posted by MS1950
    The irony would be there IF alongside the planned changes there wasn't a rollout plan for a new generation of ticket machines that will be able to handle things like that.

    Where that doesn't help is where you get stupid things like Southeastern's metro stations that have a ticket office that is usually closed or has a queue, and only a single ticket machine
  • billse
    so if someone who is not a party to this dispute - say, a someone on a zero hours contract who lost two hours' pay yesterday because they couldn't get to work on time - loses money, and the strike is/was totally avoidable, who should cover their losses? TfL did not have control over the strike: they didn't call for it, and were (according to papers) still open to negotiation. All this nonsense from Mr Crow about why won't the Mayor sit with him to discuss it - why should he? He's not the employer, he's the biggest (ok, only) customer of the employer. If i worked for the company that cleans RMT offices & had a dispute with my employer, and I demanded a meeting with Mr Crow, can you see that happening? Hahahah ..
    • MS1950
    • By MS1950 6th Feb 14, 11:25 AM
    • 324 Posts
    • 517 Thanks
    MS1950
    The irony would be there IF alongside the planned changes there wasn't a rollout plan for a new generation of ticket machines that will be able to handle things like that.

    Where that doesn't help is where you get stupid things like Southeastern's metro stations that have a ticket office that is usually closed or has a queue, and only a single ticket machine
    Originally posted by billse
    As you claim to know, perhaps you could explain how this “new generation of ticket machines” will accept, assess and process these claims for ‘normal’ delays or cancellations - i.e. that are “TfL's fault, or disruptions weren't advertised in advance” (rather than the result of strike action) – it seems quite an ambitious leap forward in technology?

    Additionally perhaps you have an insight into how other issues currently dealt with by ticket offices will work?

    TfL’s ‘The future of the tube’ says “All stations staffed and controlled at all times, with more staff visible to help customers”, and has a short PR video showing smartly dressed staff with hand held terminals advising one or two customers in an almost empty station ticket hall.

    http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/28868.aspx

    But in the real world – particularly during ‘rush hour’ – where they are likely to be inundated with requests - who do they serve first, those who shout the loudest, the strongest who push to the front? A queue won't apply. Elderly or disabled people won't stand a chance.

    Unless, of course, they place themselves in some sort of enclosure (let’s call it an office) with some sort of arrangement to ensure that people needing help queue and are attended to in order…..
    Last edited by MS1950; 06-02-2014 at 11:37 AM.
  • TheMacs
    I have an annual Oyster travelcard. This gives me access to the train, tube, bus (and a few other services). Whilst over the past 2 days, I could have queued with the masses for the tube, and arrived late to work, I decided to cycle.

    During the period of the strikes, the strikers' salaries aren't paid. So TfL are, as I see it, saving money. My question is simply this: if TfL are "benefitting" from the strike, why shouldn't they be prepared to issue refunds to people who are affected by the consequences of that same strike?

    Apologies if I've missed something fairly obvious.

    Rich
    • victor2
    • By victor2 6th Feb 14, 4:30 PM
    • 4,927 Posts
    • 3,301 Thanks
    victor2
    During the period of the strikes, the strikers' salaries aren't paid. So TfL are, as I see it, saving money. My question is simply this: if TfL are "benefitting" from the strike, why shouldn't they be prepared to issue refunds to people who are affected by the consequences of that same strike?

    Apologies if I've missed something fairly obvious.
    Originally posted by TheMacs
    So, expand your statement to conclude that Tfl would save even more money by not running the Tube network at all, ever. Didn't know they were a charity, doing it for the good of the country....
    • chattychappy
    • By chattychappy 8th Feb 14, 10:26 AM
    • 7,082 Posts
    • 3,918 Thanks
    chattychappy
    Just another example of government double standards.

    They happily impose consumer protection legislation on the private sector, but never expect to live by the same rules themselves.

    Imagine buying something faulty from M&S and being told you can't get a refund cause it's "not our fault" or being told you can only have a voucher.
    • onesonsmum
    • By onesonsmum 8th Feb 14, 10:37 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 50 Thanks
    onesonsmum
    Query re: the tube strike. Does anybody know, Because of having to break my usually continuous journey, I had to pay twice once on overground, then a walk and then on underground. So it cost me more and great distress.

    Can I claim a refund?
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 8th Feb 14, 11:55 AM
    • 18,660 Posts
    • 15,598 Thanks
    wealdroam
    Query re: the tube strike. Does anybody know, Because of having to break my usually continuous journey, I had to pay twice once on overground, then a walk and then on underground. So it cost me more and great distress.

    Can I claim a refund?
    Originally posted by onesonsmum
    Having read the title of this thread, and the article linked from the original post, surely you know the answer to your question.

    Can you put a value on the distress caused?
    • glider3560
    • By glider3560 9th Feb 14, 6:02 PM
    • 3,772 Posts
    • 2,450 Thanks
    glider3560
    Query re: the tube strike. Does anybody know, Because of having to break my usually continuous journey, I had to pay twice once on overground, then a walk and then on underground. So it cost me more and great distress.

    Can I claim a refund?
    Originally posted by onesonsmum
    At which stations did you interchange between trains? In many cases, "out of station interchanges" are present, which will link the journey into one.

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