So don't tell your employer you're looking to leave ... but what if you have to?

wapow wrote: »

Lol aye alright but i did give you some good advice! You have a problem so fix it if you dont want to be singled out in life! Reflect within. Thats the best advice anyone can give anyone to be honest

Hope it works out. :j

Reflect within? This isn't yoga!

I'm willing to accept some of the cause was myself & i did change. It made little difference though. Co-workers saw a positive difference, management didn't care. It was only the complaint which sorted things.
Despite what you've already decided, it isn't ALL me i'm afraid. When half the workforce are asking you "why is it always you when you've done nothing wrong..." then something isn't right.

That aside, i've worked there since i was a young lad & they don't seem to be able to view me as anything other than that.

Still, as i say, i've made positive change & part of management have noticed this & now treat me (positive way) differently. However, the actual 2 bosses don't care. Our entire dept is always scum (one of them has actually said this, the other stopped just short of it). They just have a total dislike of our department - it doesn't matter whether our dept gets replaced or not & we have new people in who do the job well - they always have the same view of our dept.

But maybe it's OUR fault, all the many men i've worked with. It must surely be ALL our doing & not that the 2 bosses see us as doing a low skilled low paid job & we're therefore worthless. Add to that that one of the bosses seems to have a clear dislike of virtually any male.

Nature_Baby wrote: »

Is it possible approach management and offer solutions to your problems at work?

I have done this. They wont. The only solution they suggested was to leave.

Without going into detail, there is our dept supervisor who doesn't do his job & breaks the law at work ... but because the boss doesn't need toilet tissue with this guy around, and he will jump 100ft every time the boss barks, they wont do anything about him. You'd struggle to get a brownnoser like him.
The other is to just show us a bit more respect & allow us to work as a team instead of trying to turn us against each other. As i say, one member of management changed, but the actual bosses wont.

We're drifting off topic though. Even if they did change, which they wont, i'd still be on 18k per year for a load of hours. I don't want it.

Slinky wrote: »

Can you not sell the idea of your course as of benefit to your employer? As a trained, whateveritis, would you be able to (in theory) use those skills at your current workplace? If you can come up with a plausible reason why you want to do the course then you can sell the idea of getting away on Thursday evenings to do the course as a benefit to them. You just need to find an angle.

Sorry, it'd be of no use to them. Plus if it was, the boss would rather bring in his own men/friends who do that job.

saintjammyswine wrote: »

Are you paid for the extra hours or not

I'm not being funny when i say this - but i've already answered that.

callow wrote: »

I work in a place where we occasionally have to work over. We have it indicated on our roster who are the ones who will have to stay late if required. We don't get overtime but get time back at a later stage. This way it is done fairly with the staying late allocation evenly distributed.

Perhaps you could suggest a similar system where you work. That way if you have a course on one particular night you could ask not to be put on the staying late roster for that particular day.

There has been many suggestions, trust me.

But as we're "scum" (& worse), we can't work together as a team (they've decided that we can't) & can't be trusted.

Many of the suggestions would also save them money, but they don't implement ANY of them. Why? Probably because some mere peasants thought of them. Not a single idea has been implemented. Some of them have been poor, but some of them have been really brilliant ideas.

One example about covering was....

I needed to leave. I had a ticket for a show paid for. TWO men out of our 4 man dept were willing to cover me that night so long as i covered them at another point (i was willing).
I told the bosses & got told no, this isn't happening. THOSE TWO men will be leaving tonight & i will be the one stopping (they knew why i wanted to go).

As it was i finally made it to my show (had to break the speed limit on the motorway by a good chunk), although i was 10 minutes late.

But don't forget, it is us mere peasants that can't work as a team!!

jfh7gwa wrote: »

How do your colleagues manage it?

They leave.

In the time i've been there, there's been so many who've come & gone. It used to be that if they'd be there 12 months then they were long serving. Now it can be up to about 2-3 years but they're always looking - it's just that so are a million other people at the same jobs.
The supervisor has been there some time now, but that's because he knows he's got it sweet. He lives on the doorstep = no travel costs. He also knows he's got full backing regardless (other than if he assaults someone in front of witnesses). Why would he leave? So he's been there some time.

I've been there the longest by far. It's the only place i've ever worked. It's all well & good people on here saying "well just leave then", but it can be harder than that. I find it difficult & in all honesty, the thought of starting something new scares me a bit. Probably getting on how Morgan Freeman felt in Shawshank Redemption!:rotfl:

I don't understand how 100% of your working days you just have to deal with not being able to regularly tell when you'll be finishing.

Well that's how it is i'm afraid. In winter you can almost say you're finishing on time, but even then it's not a cert.

That's the problem though - people like you (no offence by that, i just mean people who haven't experienced it) just don't understand. We've had well travelled folk in their 50s/60s saying they've never worked for such a setup.

What about the employees with childcare arrangements?

"The business needs...". The business employ the staff, not their kids.
One boss said something on this topic to a lad. Something like she wont stop him picking his kids up ....but she can.
She got told in no uncertain terms that she wont be stopping this lad picking his kids up at all.

The result is the other parent generally sorts the kids, or a family member of friend.

What about the employees with other caring duties i.e. for non-offspring family members or elderly relatives?

Not their (employers) concern

What about arranging activities around a child's schooling?

Tough. If your kid is in after school club & finishes at 6, but you've got a delivery to sort & you wont be done until 6:30, then you wont be done until 6:30. You can ask & you may get lucky & someone may cover you (or be allowed to), but if you get told no, then no.

Or being able to attend a course of e.g. dental treatment?

Ahh i've had experience of this myself.
I was told to go to my dentist on the weekend.
My dentist doesn't work weekends.
Well find one that does. Or use a holiday.
So basically if i have 20 medical appointments this year, my entire annual leave is wiped out with appointments?
I just got stared at in such a look that said yes, without anything verbal.

That was when we didn't get along (i.e. special treatment - other folk were allowed to just go). These days i book my appts at the end of the day so as to not disrupt much of the day & i'm allowed to just go. Nice when the face fits.

Or getting your car MOT'd, etc?

That's your responsibility, not theirs.
People generally drop their car off at a garage a few mile away & get a lift in off a co worker. Other people will get the bus in or just use a days holiday.
I used to take a family members car, but that's no longer an option, so i'll have to consider booking MOT on a weekend when i'm off work.

I genuinely don't understand how you can have an entire team of workers who basically have been told "no idea what time you leave, and there'll be few little warning of it, just deal with it".

That's because you don't work there. It's been that way for as long as i've ever known it & that's over 10 yrs.

It sounds like the sort of thing a gang of student summer workers might put up with, but not any full-time working adult.

As i say, people constantly look for other jobs. Someone comes in & fills their place & then they look for another job.

I mean, how do you even plan when you eat? I don't eat in the mornings, tend to have a light lunch, and a big meal when I get home. If I was potentially working until 8.30pm I'd have to go out and buy something to eat rather than feeling faint by not eating until about 10pm (commute time inclusive). Anyone with a family wouldn't be able to stick it long term with your arrangements.

I have breakfast before work. I then have something to eat on my morning break, my dinner & afternoon break. I keep a box of nuts/dried fruit with me to snack on if i get hungry. If we're working super late then yes you can get quite hungry, but most the time you're concentrating on getting finished asap. I currently live at home so meals are done for me some days. Other days my gf would probably have something prepared & i'd just warm it up if i was really late.
People with families do tend to be those who complain the most though i admit. Rightly so imo. I wouldn't like not seeing my kids for more than an hour a day before you hit the sack to do it all over again.

But regularly, and at SUCH short notice - that's a huge, huge problem, if what you're telling us is true (i.e. you're not just being victimised by your supervisor).

What bits are you questioning? It's all true. I can see how you can't get it into your head (again, i don't mean that in an offensive way - if i didn't work here i wouldn't believe a place could be like it either).

How do other folk manage it alongside their other commitments, hobbies, care duties?

They don't. Or do the best they can.
One lad had to give up his biking hobby when he worked here. He left & took it up again.
If you need to get anything done you've got Sunday - but some places don't open Sundays, so you need to book a Saturday, but if you do, then you owe someone a Saturday & you can then end up working about 6-9 Saturdays in a row. It used to be 1 off in 3, then it was every other, then it was 1 off in 3 again, but now it's all over the place. Not only can you not get things done until Sunday or the Saturday you may be off in 8 weeks time, but doing a 50-60hr physical job 6 days per week is tiring.

But i suppose it's better than being on the dole or sick.


My problem is i've never known what i wanted to do, ever. I've had every man & his dog saying i'm better than this, in part due to my school grades (GCSE As, Bs, Cs), but i just never knew. At the time i didn't want to do uni. I did A-levels.
Only now when i'm on my way to 30 have i started thinking oh that might be ok. That might be worth a shot. But i've now got a gf & we're set to move out & get our own place next year so i can't just walk out like i maybe could've when i was 18/19. Also, career changes (college) with maybe nothing at the end of it is also a big risk when you're going to have a house to pay for.

In short, i just feel stuck & don't know what to do.