So don't tell your employer you're looking to leave ... but what if you have to?

BarrelScraper · 13 March 2012 at 9:05PM

So after an enquiry here a while ago, the feedback was to not tell your employer you're considering leaving. Fair enough.

My question is - what if you have to?

To explain...

If i finish work on time, i finish at 5:30pm. During the lighter nights this is never.
Our contracts say we're to work overtime as & when required. This comes with NO notice. Worst case scenario would be that at 5:25pm, we're thinking we're done & ready for doors down & then the call comes across that a delivery is coming in but wont arrive until say 6:30pm & they need someone to stay ... and YOU'RE the chosen one. It can literally be as short notice as that. You come to just expect that you're working beyond 5:30pm. As for how long is anyones guess. You only know what time you're finishing the moment you're clocking off & driving away.

So, if you're considering doing any night courses, you're a bit scuppered.

Let's say a college course started at 7:00pm. The college is a bit of a distance from my work. I'd make it if i left at 5:30pm, but certainly not if i left at 6:30pm (which is a regular during the summer).

The way i see it is i don't want to be on a job that pays 18k per year IF you do 60 hour weeks (or about 13-14k if you don't), where you get 1 pay rise of 10p in 9 years, where you get constantly verbally abused by the bosses & back stabbed by a brown nosing supervisor & all the others who try and crawl up the bosses leg thinking that he gives 2 hoots about them.

If i want to do anything that pays remotely well then i'll have to either 1) get lucky or 2) get qualified. Being qualified will require college or Uni.
In other words, if i started a college course to better myself, which started at say 7:00pm, i would NEED to inform work about my plans, otherwise i could kiss goodbye to ever making it to class.

* I think i know the answer to this one - but can they stop me going at 5:30pm (meaning my only chance then would be to quit & go into education full time)?
* Obviously you can't tell me what my boss would be like, but what sort of reception would you expect from an employer if you had to tell them this?
* Could you think of any other way around it without telling them that i haven't thought of?

LadyMissA · 13 March 2012 at 9:29PM

what are your contract hours?
What does it say in the contract about over time and the notice they will give you?
do you get paid for the over time

If the answers are 9-5.30pm, says nothing about over time & no I dont get paid I would suggest you look for another job NOW!

kiddy_guy · 13 March 2012 at 9:43PM

I'm no expert here, but many people, including myself have written into their contract regarding overtime as and when required. Deliveries don't just turn up - they have to be planned. It would seem ridiculous that they cannot pre-empt the delivery, so perhaps you need to address this issue.

As regards your training, explain to your boss what day your class is and explain that you're happy to work O/T on any other day except this. You don't have to tell him what the class is, or even the fact you're taking a class. You could have to pick your nieces and nephews on that given day, if you wanted to. I think you may have to sell it to them and explain what a good employee you're been, but the fact that this needs to work both ways.

I think when O/T becomes a staple rather than O/T then the business needs to look at the fact it's no longer O/T. It's then core hours. If this is the case they need to address this issue.

If, having spoken to your boss, they are unprepared to resource adequately, you need to document it to him and the HR dept. If they are unprepared to actually do anything, then work to rule. If they then have an issue with this, you would be well placed to refer them back to your earlier correspondence.

BarrelScraper · 13 March 2012 at 9:44PM

I would have to dig the contract out if i could find it, to get the exact wording. From memory though:

It says we can be asked to start as early as 6:30am, finish as late as 8:30pm. Our work will be between these hours Monday - Saturday. Saturday in some departments (mine) is part of the job & we will be expected to work it. It might says something about a Saturday rota system, i can't remember, but we have a "sort of" rota for Saturdays.

It says nothing about overtime notice at all, just that there will be times where overtime is required & we will be expected to work it.

We work 40 hours at a set rate & then beyond this we get an increased (overtime) rate.
So we could work 24 hours solid on the Monday (forgetting law), but then not turn in for the rest of the week. We'd only get paid the flat rate , not the overtime rate, as we wouldn't have completed 40 hours in the week.

As i say, i'd have to dig it out to get the exact wording.

Plus, we're looking at moving out next year, so my plan was to keep my head down until then & then once we're on our feet, start looking at my options.

I don't want to just move from job-to-job though. I'm not happy on 18k per year for a stack of hours. I want 20k minimum without doing all the hours God sends. To get this, as i'm not a lucky person, i'll have to get qualified. The thought at the moment was electrician, but i'm still mulling things over.

wapow · 13 March 2012 at 9:47PM

If youre always the chosen one. You have a problem. Fix your problem and your life will fix itself. You have ZERO excuse for this so dont bother coming back with any excuses.

BarrelScraper · 13 March 2012 at 9:53PM

kiddy_guy wrote: »

Deliveries don't just turn up - they have to be planned. It would seem ridiculous that they cannot pre-empt the delivery, so perhaps you need to address this issue.

There is a total non-communication issue where i work. We have tried for years, but we get nowhere. Change comes at the top & if they wont change, then it doesn't matter what us mere peasants try.
This aside, it's not just deliveries. It could be our own company vehicles returning reading for loading for the morning deliveries. This is totally hit-&-miss. They could get a break down, get stuck in traffic, anything could slow them down.

explain that you're happy to work O/T on any other day except this.

I know people who do this, but they work in office jobs. It's nice when it can be organised like that.
That doesn't and can't happen at our place, because they simply don't know what day is going to be busy & what day isn't until it happens. We've had days where we've expected a mad rush & we've been counting tumbleweed, and days where we think it's going to drag & we've not been able to stop. I could tell them i need Thursdays for example, but there's no such thing as "making the overtime up" as each day is taken as it comes. That days orders need to be dealt with that day. You can't put them off until tomorrow.

I think when O/T becomes a staple rather than O/T then the business needs to look at the fact it's no longer O/T. It's then core hours. If this is the case they need to address this issue.

Been there, tried that. The business is open until 5:30 as they still accept customers through the doors. After this, they're technically not supposed to (but the boss will allow his "good customers" through). We still have to deal with our own vehicles though, which may or may not still be delivering, coming back to depot & then requiring re-loading either for another run or for the next day.
As i say, each day is taken as it comes, so you could be done at 5:30pm all week & be lucky, or it could be really busy & you're not done until 7:00pm all week. You really don't know until the day comes.

If they are unprepared to actually do anything, then work to rule.

We had a guy do this once. Life was made incredibly difficult for him. He was then sacked for not doing overtime as and when required.

As i say, i'm keeping my head down for 12 months & then wanting to get out, but don't want to lose my job as that wont look good on my CV.

I'm not trying to challenge what you guys are telling me. Just trying to get you to understand the way the system is at my workplace.

BarrelScraper · 13 March 2012 at 9:56PM

wapow wrote: »

If youre always the chosen one. You have a problem. Fix your problem and your life will fix itself. You have ZERO excuse for this so dont bother coming back with any excuses.

Uuumm, thanks for the, errr, helpful reply.

I never said i was always the chosen one. I said that was worst case scenario. Worst case scenario would hardly be the next man having to stop all night & you going home putting your feet up would it?!

It used to be that they would select me for the latest of finishes & worst of jobs (& no i wasn't being paranoid). I'd get 7pms, while others would get say 6pms. I'd get a mountain of work to do, where they'd only get a minor task.
I put my complaint in writing saying i was being singled out.

Things changed after that & everyone started to get treated pretty much the same.

wapow · 13 March 2012 at 10:00PM

BarrelScraper wrote: »

Uuumm, thanks for the, errr, helpful reply.

I never said i was always the chosen one. I said that was worst case scenario. Worst case scenario would hardly be the next man having to stop all night & you going home putting your feet up would it?!

It used to be that they would select me for the latest of finishes & worst of jobs (& no i wasn't being paranoid). I'd get 7pms, while others would get say 6pms. I'd get a mountain of work to do, where they'd only get a minor task.
I put my complaint in writing saying i was being singled out.

Things changed after that & everyone started to get treated pretty much the same.

Lol aye alright but i did give you some good advice! You have a problem so fix it if you dont want to be singled out in life! Reflect within. Thats the best advice anyone can give anyone to be honest

Hope it works out. :j

TheSandman · 14 March 2012 at 5:17AM

You're undecided on the actual course you want to do so why not first check flexible online courses.

The OU do this, you've also got IFA and accountancy courses if I remember correctly.

These are courses where if you work late one night you can do the work the next night or take a week off and work harder the next etc etc

The OU is slightly different in that there are deadlines and you still have to go in for tutoring & exams (happy to be corrected here) but there are plenty of online courses where study and exams are done at your own pace in whatever hours fit you. This solves the problem of being made to work late and missing a class.

Google MITx

Bangkok_Owl · 14 March 2012 at 5:40AM

Is it possible approach management and offer solutions to your problems at work?

Slinky · 14 March 2012 at 8:41AM

Can you not sell the idea of your course as of benefit to your employer? As a trained, whateveritis, would you be able to (in theory) use those skills at your current workplace? If you can come up with a plausible reason why you want to do the course then you can sell the idea of getting away on Thursday evenings to do the course as a benefit to them. You just need to find an angle.