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    • MSE Guy
    • By MSE Guy 14th Feb 11, 4:38 PM
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    MSE Guy
    MSE News: Warning over new compulsory car insurance rules
    • #1
    • 14th Feb 11, 4:38 PM
    MSE News: Warning over new compulsory car insurance rules 14th Feb 11 at 4:38 PM
    This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

    "All motorists in Great Britain will have to insure their vehicle unless it is formally declared off-road ..."

Page 1
    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 14th Feb 11, 5:26 PM
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    rogerblack
    • #2
    • 14th Feb 11, 5:26 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Feb 11, 5:26 PM
    I find the new rules most annoying.
    I'm disabled, and don't use the car much - both for financial reasons, and the fact I'm not safe to drive much of the time.
    Previously, I was able to tax the car, and keep it in a locked garage off-road.
    I was able to insure it on a one-day policy, for the comparatively few days a year I used it.
    This about halves the cost of the required insurance, though admittedly does not build up
    no-claims discount.

    The simple and easy way for the government to fix this was to compell the insurance
    companies to make the motor insurance database live.

    An insured vehicle would always be on the database - at the moment it's not, it takes
    several days often.

    If this was made live, then police could easily find uninsured drivers, as could ANPR cameras.

    However, the cheaper option was to simply do a database search of the DVLA records and the
    insurance database, then send out letters.

    The fact it's not possible to declare SORN without voiding your tax disk means that you can't
    avoid this by taxing the vehicle for short periods.

    In effect, a 200 pound/year tax.

    Depressing.
    I do hope that some insurers begin to offer policies that cover cars locked in garages.
    • glider3560
    • By glider3560 14th Feb 11, 5:28 PM
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    glider3560
    • #3
    • 14th Feb 11, 5:28 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Feb 11, 5:28 PM
    If this was made live, then police could easily find uninsured drivers, as could ANPR cameras.
    Originally posted by rogerblack
    It would only find uninsured cars, not uninsured drivers. Just because the car has insurance, doesn't mean the driver is insured to drive it.

    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 14th Feb 11, 5:31 PM
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    rogerblack
    • #4
    • 14th Feb 11, 5:31 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Feb 11, 5:31 PM
    It would only find uninsured cars, not uninsured drivers. Just because the car has insurance, doesn't mean the driver is insured to drive it.
    Originally posted by glider3560
    Very true - and the converse of course.
    There are also policies that will cover you to drive any car.

    However, the proposed scheme won't find drivers who are uninsured driving in vehicles that are insured either.
    • Andy L
    • By Andy L 14th Feb 11, 5:52 PM
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    Andy L
    • #5
    • 14th Feb 11, 5:52 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Feb 11, 5:52 PM
    I find the new rules most annoying.
    I'm disabled, and don't use the car much - both for financial reasons, and the fact I'm not safe to drive much of the time.
    Previously, I was able to tax the car, and keep it in a locked garage off-road.
    I was able to insure it on a one-day policy, for the comparatively few days a year I used it.
    This about halves the cost of the required insurance, though admittedly does not build up
    no-claims discount.

    The simple and easy way for the government to fix this was to compell the insurance
    companies to make the motor insurance database live.

    An insured vehicle would always be on the database - at the moment it's not, it takes
    several days often.

    If this was made live, then police could easily find uninsured drivers, as could ANPR cameras.

    However, the cheaper option was to simply do a database search of the DVLA records and the
    insurance database, then send out letters.

    The fact it's not possible to declare SORN without voiding your tax disk means that you can't
    avoid this by taxing the vehicle for short periods.

    In effect, a 200 pound/year tax.

    Depressing.
    I do hope that some insurers begin to offer policies that cover cars locked in garages.
    Originally posted by rogerblack
    How do you manage to tax the car in the 1st place without having proper (ie non-day insurance) on it?

    I suspect the V890 will be changed so you can use it to declare SORN without having to surrender the tax disc. After all, at the moment, it is pointless declaring SORN if you have a valid tax disc.

    Plenty of insurers already provide "laid-up" insurance for unused cars.
    • vaio
    • By vaio 14th Feb 11, 6:26 PM
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    vaio
    • #6
    • 14th Feb 11, 6:26 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Feb 11, 6:26 PM
    Yep, but the laid up insurance doesn't include RTA cover so would still fall foul of the new law

    Which, incidentally strikes me as a particularly badly thought out pointless waste of time which is going to do nothing to reduce uninsured driving and lots to add revenue streams to DVLA & the insurance companies.

    Does anyone know when it is actually going to start? I keep hoping it’s one of the Labour party ideas that is quietly going to be dropped.
    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 14th Feb 11, 6:26 PM
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    rogerblack
    • #7
    • 14th Feb 11, 6:26 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Feb 11, 6:26 PM
    How do you manage to tax the car in the 1st place without having proper (ie non-day insurance) on it?
    Originally posted by Andy L
    I don't recall that being a requirement.

    I suspect the V890 will be changed so you can use it to declare SORN without having to surrender the tax disc. After all, at the moment, it is pointless declaring SORN if you have a valid tax disc.
    I have a reply from the ministers office that there are no plans for such.

    Plenty of insurers already provide "laid-up" insurance for unused cars.[/QUOTE]

    However - these policies actually cover you for risk, which costs.
    I do not want a policy that covers me for fire, theft, accidental damage, or acts of terrorism.

    I want a policy that solely covers me for the risk of the vehicle being stolen from the locked garage, and left on the public highway, until I can recover it (at my own cost, after having arranged suitable insurance)
    • corbyboy
    • By corbyboy 14th Feb 11, 6:32 PM
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    corbyboy
    • #8
    • 14th Feb 11, 6:32 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Feb 11, 6:32 PM
    Realistically how many people is this going to affect? Do many people keep their car in the garage uninsured? What if somebody steals it or the roof of the garage falls in. Car insurance doesn't just cover you if you cause a crash.
    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 14th Feb 11, 6:54 PM
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    rogerblack
    • #9
    • 14th Feb 11, 6:54 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Feb 11, 6:54 PM
    Me, for one.


    I'm not claiming a large number of people are in my position, however, the government suddenly deciding I have to pay a couple of hundred pounds extra a year, with no benefit to anyone other than the insurance companies, stings a bit.

    I am quite capable of maintaining my garage to make the chances of the roof falling in vanishingly small.

    Someone stealing it is indeed a real possibility - from a locked garage in a low crime area, with a 1.0l car with an immobiliser.
    If someone steals it, and causes an accident, they would not be covered by any insurance.
    Insurance would only kick in once they get out of the vehicle, and if they've left it in a public place, I would indeed have committed an offence.

    I find this to be vanishingly unlikely enough, that I'm quite happy to take the risk, as I do now.

    This risk still applies to SORN'd cars, of course.

    I will now be required, if I wish to use the car every couple of weeks, to get it continually insured.
    I was previously able to get it insured on a day-day basis, at a considerable saving, with the car remaining in a locked garage in between periods of insurance.

    A bit of googling finds: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/20/pdfs/uksiem_20110020_en.pdf - this is the explanatory note to the statutory instrument amending the road traffic act to get it into a state where the next instrument can bring those provisions into force by setting enforcement actions.
    Last edited by rogerblack; 14-02-2011 at 7:03 PM.
    • stolt
    • By stolt 14th Feb 11, 7:00 PM
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    stolt
    I guess once it goes live, everyone is getting a 30.00 discount on there car insurance. I'm all for making sure everyone has insurance but i dont like the fact that they keep saying your premiums go about because of the uninsured people.
    Listen to what people say, but watch what people what people do!!
    • glider3560
    • By glider3560 14th Feb 11, 7:18 PM
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    glider3560
    I guess once it goes live, everyone is getting a 30.00 discount on there car insurance
    Originally posted by stolt
    People will still drive uninsured. This system won't solve any problem other than creating a nice cash flow.

    • Charis
    • By Charis 14th Feb 11, 7:54 PM
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    Charis
    People will still drive uninsured. This system won't solve any problem other than creating a nice cash flow.
    Originally posted by glider3560
    "Half of the 1.5 million uninsured drivers are younger than 29, which suggests that high insurance premiums and low penalty fines, from as little as 50, are encouraging some young people to drive uninsured [...] Uninsured drivers are also 10 times more likely to be convicted of drink driving and, across Britain, are believed to cause 160 deaths on the road every year."

    The quotes are from about half way through this article. This new law doesn't attempt to address either problem, it's merely a way to get more revenue from soft targets.
    Last edited by Charis; 14-02-2011 at 7:57 PM.
  • pendulum
    Another sickening law. I'll no logner be able to use a temporary insurance provider like Dayinsure to drive my car which is fully taxed and MoT'd, because to avoid getting a fine I'll have to SORN it. More red tape interfering with ordinary law abiding people's lives!

    They would have been better to send reminder letters rather than fines! E.g., Dear Mr X, our records show you have a car which is still on the road, but we can't find an insurance policy for it, you may wish to check it has not expired or been cancelled without you realising etc". Fining people 100 who are probably doing nothing wrong is just pathetic. There should at least be an exemption you can apply for if this legislation is going to affect you going about your lawful business!

    The insurance companies have been saying for a long time they're struggling and not making money - I wonder who they bribed (or "lobbied") to get this measure brought in... It really isn't very subtle is it!
    • corbyboy
    • By corbyboy 14th Feb 11, 9:03 PM
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    corbyboy
    Me, for one.
    Originally posted by rogerblack
    Fair enough, I was just playing Devil's advocate to be honest. I actually think these rules are just unnecessary.

    Surely this is going to put short term insurance companies out of business too?
    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 14th Feb 11, 9:11 PM
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    rogerblack
    Fair enough, I was just playing Devil's advocate to be honest. I actually think these rules are just unnecessary.

    Surely this is going to put short term insurance companies out of business too?
    Originally posted by corbyboy
    It will mean that someone with a car for sale will now have to pay insurance on it, or SORN it, which will mean that a buyer will need to tax it first before driving off after getting it insured, or get it picked up by a tow-vehicle.

    So, you've just bought a not-totally !!!! car, to replace your totally !!!! car.

    You transfer over the insurance - and boom - you now have a very short grace period before you have to either reinsure it, or cancel the tax disk.

    Now a buyer can't simply ring up, get insurance, and drive off.
    This may considerably slow down some aspects of the second hand market, making the poorest off less able to buy and sell cars.
    • Print Screen
    • By Print Screen 14th Feb 11, 10:21 PM
    • 330 Posts
    • 195 Thanks
    Print Screen
    Realistically how many people is this going to affect? Do many people keep their car in the garage uninsured? What if somebody steals it or the roof of the garage falls in. Car insurance doesn't just cover you if you cause a crash.
    Originally posted by corbyboy
    A group that it will affect are motorcyclists. There are quite a few motorcyclists who have a summer bike or are just summer riders so they will have to keep SORNing their bikes then retaxing when they want to use them. That is unless they can plan ahead an guarantee that they will only use their bikes between say May and August.
    If freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will have freedom.
    • rogerblack
    • By rogerblack 14th Feb 11, 10:32 PM
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    rogerblack
    A group that it will affect are motorcyclists. There are quite a few motorcyclists who have a summer bike or are just summer riders so they will have to keep SORNing their bikes then retaxing when they want to use them. That is unless they can plan ahead an guarantee that they will only use their bikes between say May and August.
    Originally posted by Print Screen
    To add to the fun of course - you can't do this really easily, as when you declare SORN, your tax disk is cancelled, and you only get whole months of tax back.

    It is possible to do it on one day, but that will mean cancelling SORN, getting short term insurance, getting tax disk at post office, driving, declaring SORN, forfeiting the remainder of the months tax disk.
    • plumber2009
    • By plumber2009 15th Feb 11, 2:44 AM
    • 308 Posts
    • 305 Thanks
    plumber2009
    It would be easier to just not own a car and hire a car if needed.

    This will only encourage more uninsured drivers onto our roads as people will use a sorn vehicle to take chances, especially those that use their car say once or twice a month to nip to the shops.
    • BAA1
    • By BAA1 15th Feb 11, 7:01 AM
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    BAA1
    The MSE article says that caravans will also be effected by this legislation, How ?

    A caravan is not taxed so cannot be declared SORN, and as far as I am aware, the law does not require insurance on a caravan, the car insurance policy covers your liabilities (but you may need to inform your car insurer that you tow a caravan).
    • Rover Driver
    • By Rover Driver 15th Feb 11, 7:35 AM
    • 1,407 Posts
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    Rover Driver
    The Insurance Requirement - s.144A Road Traffic Act 1988 - has been in force since 4th February.

    The Road Safety Act 2006 (Commencement No.6) Order 2011, refers ,
    Last edited by Rover Driver; 15-02-2011 at 7:50 AM. Reason: Further information
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