Would you buy cheap child-sweatshop made clothes? Poll results/discussion

MothballsWallet

Ok, so my idea of GAP telling the DoL to fnck was too strong: I still don't see anything in any legal system anywhere that could stop GAP from going back to the DoL to renegotiate the pledge in the future. After all, this pledge is a special form of contract, and contracts can be changed with renegotiation.

Do we know who would check up on companies and their suppliers to make sure that these pledges are being adhered to and gather any evidence of any wrongdoing, if there were any allegations made?

JuliaJolie wrote: »

Somehow I don't think that's what GAP wants. Stop conspiracy-theorising. It may be fashionable (particularly for USA-hating xenophobes), but it's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

For the record, I am not a "USA-hating xenophobe": I have some very good friends in America, but even they hate the current administration. I am actually married to a Russian, in case you didn't already know.

If the DoL pledge system is to become more popular (and I'd love to see their FTC investigate Disney, that'd be a riot), then they need to move the proposal up to the UN and WTC level, with the backing of the other organisations mentioned earlier, to encourage the adoption of the scheme.

I just see the enforcement of the pledges being an issue, as it might be difficult for the auditors to gain access to the factories, thanks to the efforts of less scrupulous factory owners.

*vic*

For the focus of this current debate to be on Primark is misleading. The only way to attach individual sequins is by hand, so who will be attaching sequins on garments for Monsoon, Debenhams, Topshop etc? The same people as those making garments for Primark. Do you think Monsoon, Debenhams or Topshop pay these factories any more then Primark do? No, neither do I.

What really bothers me is that Primark are getting the bad press for providing cheap clothing to the customer while retailers such as Monsoon, Debenhams and Topshop are overlooked while they are making as much as 100% profit on each style once they has paid their factories. And then you have to consider French Connection, All Saints and other labels. Admittedly quality in Primark is poorer than in Monsoon etc but I have stopped shopping in certain higher priced retailers because of poor quality.

Child labour, while we may not agree with it does happen and not just with low priced clothing. But of the children on Monday's programme, how many looked unhappy? They all looked clean, well dressed and happy and when given the choice between earning money for their families by sewing sequins or begging on the street and possibly turning to prostitution I think there is only one decent choice. These are developing countries with a different way of living to ourselves, is not all that long ago while we were a developing economy that we were sending children down coal mines.

Forget about boycotting, that will not help all those working really hard for our benefit. Instead we all need to start putting pressure on retailers to help improve their quality of life. It is time we re-opened factories in this country, but people would have to be willing to pay more for clothing which when looking at the way our economy is going I doubt people would really be able to or want to.

JuliaJolie

MothballsWallet wrote: »

Ok, so my idea of GAP telling the DoL to fnck was too strong: I still don't see anything in any legal system anywhere that could stop GAP from going back to the DoL to renegotiate the pledge in the future. After all, this pledge is a special form of contract, and contracts can be changed with renegotiation.

Do we know who would check up on companies and their suppliers to make sure that these pledges are being adhered to and gather any evidence of any wrongdoing, if there were any allegations made?

For the record, I am not a "USA-hating xenophobe": I have some very good friends in America, but even they hate the current administration. I am actually married to a Russian, in case you didn't already know...

Sorry, but your previous comment did seem a bit harsh. I understand your cynicism and I think it would be better if there was more international awareness about the issue in the form of UN and WTC-based enforcements. Trust me, as a British ex-patriate I've hated the current administration even before I got to the US, and I don't even know a single right-wing Republican who doesn't!

As I said previously, the FTC would be the ones investigating that the pledges are being adhered to. Each violation would carry a minimum of $10,000. It may not seem like a lot to large companies, but adding up (as there's likely to be a LOT of violations in any one case), and in addition to other fines and penalties it's not something any company is going to want to be hassled with.

leonie08

We "did" send children down coal mines. We don't anymore.

We wouldn't send our children to mine for us today - just because these children are not in the UK, if we're buying the products we should have the same regard for their safety

How far back do you want to go? we used to chop peoples heads off.. would this be acceptable if it meant producing cheap clothes ?

MothballsWallet

Julia, I hope the DoL have a clause put into the pledges saying that there's a lock in period for it, with no changes being permissible within that period.

It would be nice if the FTC would have full UN backup for their investigations as well: after all, we're talking about supply contracts spanning the world here, with perhaps several different legal systems involved, and not all legal systems are equal.

It would be better if organisations like CCC and IFAT were working on the investigations: because they are independent of governments, their findings would add more weight to the outcome than purely the FTC's work.

*vic*

I am not condoning this but these children are still in a better condition than if they were left to walk the streets begging, my point is we were once in the stage these countries are in what we need to do is pressure the retailers into providing better conditions for them. By paying the factories more and the parents of these children more, the children will have no reason to work.

leonie08

*vic* wrote: »

I am not condoning this but these children are still in a better condition than if they were left to walk the streets begging, my point is we were once in the stage these countries are in what we need to do is pressure the retailers into providing better conditions for them. By paying the factories more and the parents of these children more, the children will have no reason to work.

The way you pressure the retailers is by not buying from them. Working conditions are often terrible for adults and children. I don't think they are very likely to be 'better off' working

*vic*

leonie08 wrote: »

The way you pressure the retailers is by not buying from them. Working conditions are often terrible for adults and children. I don't think they are very likely to be 'better off' working

Not buying from them is not going to help the factories, and who are you going to boycott? Everyone? Primark are not they only guilty retailer and how can you be certain that what you buy has been made in a way you would approve of? You would have to stick to a life of charity shops and even then you can't be sure..

So you would prefer that they prostitute themselves then? Because that is the only current alternative for the majority of them

Sarahsaver

leonie08 wrote: »

of course we have... and? this is about what we are going to do from now on is it not? As we become more educated we make educated decisions.

Well, the AND...is that i am sure some people would shy away from admitting such, and some people will say they are going to avoid it from now on.
Very difficult to avoid.
Like previous posters have said just because something is at the 'higher end' of the high street does not mean it will be made by someone on a 'decent wage'.
i do not need any new clothes and hopefully i will not need any when I come to the end of the pregnancy, I will get back to the size I was before which i always managed before.
There is so much people would find 'unethical' or distasteful in all sectors of commerce. but few people who are shocked by child labour in the clothing industry would look into the background of absolutely every product they buy.
once i managed to live for a couple of years or thereabouts without buying anything from large multinational companies. It can be done but it is a whole life thing, not just about clothing but your whole consumption, everything from banking and insurance products to electrical goods.

leonie08

I don't buy less clothes! I simply chose to buy from ethical organisations, no one's losing their job because of me!