Care home fees?

megw3

Hello everyone, I am new to this forum and not very quick on the uptake on how to use it, so apologies.

Just confirming my understanding and experience to everyone first, and sorry for the long reply as I am trying to cover everything I have read in one post.

Mum never claimed DLA so I can't comment on that, but I know that AA is not payable if she is LA funded (or in hospital after 6? weeks). She didn't even claim that till she went into the care home. I also agree that the house does not have to be sold but a charge is put on it, to be repaid when it IS sold. Renting it out has all sorts of issues, from having to have appliances tested, to defaulting/destructive tenants, and tax payable on the profit. Mum's house would have needed new kitchen/bathroom/central heating to bring it to a reasonable condition for rental in our area.

I requested from my MP a breakdown of the proportion of residents considered to be "LA funded" but got no reply. The 60% quoted by an earlier person may well include those with relatives who top up the fees to something that a dog can live in. Of course there are the wealthy who don't need to claim or sell anything, but I am really not concerned about them. I am concerned about the "small prudent 81-year old" with a little two-up-two-down, a few thousand in savings and only one relative (ME!) to help out financially, and I have just retired myself. I cannot believe that only 40% of places are self-funded following the 1950s and onwards wholesale move to home ownership. I'd love to see official statistics on this.

Anyway, we sold mum's little house and took advice from an IFA, via Help the Aged. Care Home Annuities are not as cheap as you might think, depending on the health of the person. Mum was admitted mid-2007 and suffers very little that indicates an imminent death (but she was found at the bus-stop at 1.30 a.m. trying to get to the hair-dressers). The annuity, deferred for three years, cost £56,000 and will pay out £1,200 p.a. rising by 5% p.a. for life. Helpful if she lives for 20 years, but her care home fees have already risen by 13.5% since she was admitted, and her state benefits by only about 3.5%. We invested £25,000 in a guaranteed bond about which I am a little vague, but the value will definitely have fallen dramatically in recent weeks. The rest is in various deposits paying good rates, which should just about last for the next two years till the care home plan kicks in.

Question please, at some point mum's capital will fall below the £22,000-ish level - is the care home plan counted as capital for this purpose? I suspect it is.

Re gifts out of mum's money on relatives' birthdays etc. If LA funded these would have to come out of her £21-odd weekly allowance or her remaining capital. Whether LA funded or self-funded, and for claiming of state benefits and operating a power of attorney, the value of such gifts should be in line with what the person previously spent, which in mum's case would be about a tenner. Her grand-daughter is possibly getting married soon, under Inheritance Tax law she could gift her £3,000, and may have done had she not been in a Care Home, but it would be hard to argue for a sum that high in her current circumstances. But £1,000 might be fair as she hasn't encountered a family wedding before.

FINALLY (I think!), beware of assuming that what the DWP tell you is correct. Until June 2007 I had little to do with the DWP on mum's behalf, apart from a short fiasco when my dad died in 2004. I notified the Pensions Service when she went into hospital, and notified the AA department (all part of DWP) when she went into the care home (August). AA started to be paid as a result, and I set up a system for the payment of fees from her account. Her house was sold in October 2007, and I notified the Pensions Service of this as she was receiving pension credit and I knew it would need to be reviewed as a result of her increased "income" by their wonderful method of calculation. They told me there was no need to dislose the new capital, as my mum had an Assessed Income Period until Sept 2009. They were not aware that mum was in a Care Home (why not?), but amended their records. AA promptly ceased to be paid with no notice (I only realise when I went online to check her balances a few weeks later), but was reinstated after I complained. Over the next 3 months I had no fewer than 7 letters informing me that her Assessed Income Period was now until August 2012, I did not need to notify them of any changes in that time, and she would continue to receive her state pension, AA and PC. She would also be entitled to free dental treatment and help towards glasses. As her false teeth, costing about £800, had been lost, I was pleased to hear this, but didn't have the time then to get it sorted. Twice in this period I was asked to send the completion statement for the sale of her house, and twice I sent it. I never had any response.

In January 2008 I got a letter from the Pension's Service to say they were still considering my mother's claim for pension credit (I had not made any claim, it just arrived with her pension). Pension Credit was £50 a week, not peanuts, and all factored into my plans for financing her care. A swell of relief passed over me that mum would have this income for 5 years, all was safe.

Following the Jan letter, payment of Pension Credit ceased without warning. I was told in a letter dated 27th February, which arrived on March 23rd (after 3,000 phone calls and 27 letters- exaggerating, but you know what I mean), that this was because whoever had made the decision to awared the AIP back in August had made an error and should not have done so. Virtually none of the Pension Credit should have been paid. It seems they can simply reverse their decisions, despite that fact that they agree that during December 2007 they have a record of a phone call from me to them in which the person I spoke to confirmed categorically that they had full information about my mum's circumstances and Pension Credit was correct. "Unfortunately that person gave incorrect reassurance as to your mother's entitlement". End of story.

I had to accept it. Pension Credit of £50 a week was removed and I spent hours devising a new banking plan for payment of care home fees.

Nothing more until mid-August when I got a demand for overpayment of pension credit of nearly £1,000. I had 4 weeks to appeal/pay the money or whatever. I wrote to say I was not paying it, the delay was unacceptable, the money had been received in good faith, and was now spent. I still have had no reply. The letter said they could recover it from her weekly pension payments, so I have been checking those weekly. So far no money taken.

So, to the person who said their parent had been told they were entitled to AA even though LA funded, don't hold your breath!

The whole thing about funding care homes is a nightmare. I appreciate that LAs have done a lot to improve the ability of people to stay in their own homes, but there is a difference when a person feels they WANT to move to a care home (as my friend's mum did, following a major operation), and one who has no real choice.

Anyway, hope this is helpful to all, and may be helpful to me.

Margaret

EdInvestor

The annuity, deferred for three years, cost £56,000 and will pay out £1,200 p.a. rising by 5% p.a. for life.

Assume you man 12,000 p.a

We invested £25,000 in a guaranteed bond about which I am a little vague, but the value will definitely have fallen dramatically in recent weeks.

An investment bond presumably.It's performance will depend on what funds have been chosen within the bond wrapper.There are high and low risk choices.

Question please, at some point mum's capital will fall below the £22,000-ish level - is the care home plan counted as capital for this purpose?

No. The capital no longer exists, you have used it to buy an income.

bryanb

LOADSAMUSIC wrote: »

During the 12 week period before my Mothers property entered the equation her contribution was higher because of the 2 benefits.....When 1 stopped after 28 days her payment to the LA decreased.....You are lucky at the moment......but you may have to pay it back when they realize their mistake, perhaps....

While this is obviously possible, I have a few more facts to impart. The Pension service sent an investigator to mum's care home to interview her, this was after sending an appointment letter to her at the care home. They can hardly deny knowing she is in care. When the investigator discovered that I had power of attorney, they visited me by appointment to discuss paying her DLA into a different account as mum cannot administer her affairs (Blind) I then received a letter asking me to open a new account in my name for her DLA. I did this and allow them to pay into it. Her AA and pension are still paid into her account. I do not understand why this is happening but am not spending any from the DLA account. The left hand appears to be unaware that the right hand even exists.

bryanb

LOADSAMUSIC wrote: »

Found this page which maybe of help to you...
Residential Care

This information is correct as of April 2008.

Moving into a registered care or nursing home will affect many of your benefits. This guide looks at a range of factors that may affect your finances.

Thanks, could you please let me have a link to this guide?

megw3

Folks, how do I come back to this thread to read replies? I only got to it today by searching the forum site for care homes. There must be another way. Havng posted two threads from scratch how do I access replies from them?

Sorry to be so slow on the uptake. Appreciate anyone's advice

Margaret

MrsE_2

Paul_Herring wrote: »

Aparently CSCI are to be soon replaced with another body (talking years, not months here.).

I don't think its actually going to be that quite that long (years). I did have a conversation in work with someone about it a few months ago.

MrsE_2

megw3 wrote: »

Folks, how do I come back to this thread to read replies? I only got to it today by searching the forum site for care homes. There must be another way. Havng posted two threads from scratch how do I access replies from them?

Sorry to be so slow on the uptake. Appreciate anyone's advice

Margaret

See the headings along the top, click "USER CP"

bryanb

megw3 wrote: »

Folks, how do I come back to this thread to read replies? I only got to it today by searching the forum site for care homes. There must be another way. Havng posted two threads from scratch how do I access replies from them?

Sorry to be so slow on the uptake. Appreciate anyone's advice

Margaret

I always click on thread tools before leaving and add a subscription, then I return via Quick links/subscribed threads. BB

LOADSAMUSIC

BRYANB......Heres the link you requested... http://www.durham.gov.uk/durhamcc/usp.nsf/pws/Advice+Benefits+and+Emergencies+-+Welfare+Rights+-+Factsheets+-+Residential+Care

monkeyspanner

megw3 wrote: »

Question please, at some point mum's capital will fall below the £22,000-ish level - is the care home plan counted as capital for this purpose? I suspect it is.
Margaret

Hi Margaret
The annuity won't be counted as capital but will be counted as income so the annuity income plus pension less the weekly allowance will be assessed against the care home fees so probably the council will have a minimal input to the total cost. In addition the council will assess your relatives care needs and set a standard payment level. This payment level will probably be far below the care home fee you have agreed as a self funder so it is possible the council will not consider themselves liable to assist in payment of acre home fees. Here is a link to a site with good fact sheets.
www.counselandcare.org.uk

Hope this helps.


Your experience with DWP does not surprise me. In a similar situation an overpayment to my MIL was written off because we had notified a change of circumstance in writing which they had ignored.