Help needed - CCJ and ID Fraud!

qaklush

Hi, sorry this is a bit long....
I don't have a debt but I am being chased for a debt I did not run up and could do with some much needed advice. In March 2005 I received a letter out of the blue from a solicitor, acting on behalf of a landlord who rented out a flat back in 2001 in the East London area. It contained a CCJ dated March 2002, along with a debt repayment plan list I was to fill in. My name, along with another person's name was listed on the CCJ as being the tenants. The amount was for over £5,000 in unpaid rent. I was completely shocked as I had never lived at this address nor signed a tenancy agreement for it. At the time this was said to have happened I was actually living with my sister in West London. The second person's name did ring a bell - he was an acquaintance of an ex of mine who I dated between Feb 2001 - Apr 2002. First I went to seek legal advice with a solicitor as I had just bought a house with my husband and we were moving in April 2005 so didn't want this to affect any mortgage or credit we needed. My solicitor wrote a letter and over the course of several months I have received a copy of the tenancy agreement which has my personal details and a copy of my signature which is unfortunately easily copied. I then realised I was the victim of ID fraud or some kind of tenancy scam to obtain this property under false pretence - I have excellent credit history, good job etc so can understand why I would have been a good target! I immediately went to local police station to report this and was basically told I was not a victim but that the landlord was....and it was he that would have to take me to court to prove anything. I can only assume my ex was in on it with his acquaintance to help him get this property so this landlord just assumed I lived there but I have never met him and even the tenancy was faxed from my work place but my ex could have easily done this as he had come to visit me there on several occasions. The solicitor's of the landlord is threatening to take me to court over it or I have to get my name cleared off the CCJ but when I obtained a copy of my Experian Credit Report, no CCJ is listed? Also my credit has not been affected over the last couple of years, even though this debt is now over £8,000 to include daily interest! Is this right that this solicitor can ask me for money I do not owe and why the long time to track me down - I also have evidence with my solicitor that I have not lived at the property in question (electoral roll etc). Luckily my solicitor has asked them to stop the daily interest until we get this sorted out but now I'm being asked what I want to do next - challenge the CCJ in court (loser has to pay) or pay to get my name cleared? I find it very upsetting as this other person who lived at the flat seems to have got away with it and I'm now being used again as a scapegoat for his debts....Caroline

Gillby1

qaklush, that sounds awful. You must be feeling so frustrated and helpless. I can't understand people who commit any kind of fraud - how can they live with themselves???

I can't offer any useful advice, but i really hope you can get this sorted out quickly, so you can stop worrying about it. What does your solicitor suggest that you do next? If you don't have any responsibility for this debt then I think you should go to court and fight your corner - especially if you have proof that you didn't live there.

Good luck!!!!

benjamin_4

What a horrible situation.

Personally I would not pay a penny to stop any charges and would gladly fight this in court. Presumably the landlord could not even describe what you look like, and if you have documentary evidence that you have been payinig to live at a different address then I would think you could make your case fairly easily.

I am not a lawyer though!

Would the police consider instigating a criminal investigation against the people who have done this to you? Maybe the estate agent or landlord could identify the people and/or they could fingerprint the contract?

Ben

Debt_Free_Chick

You say you have a solicitor dealing with this for you? I hope you're not paying them a lot of money, as they seem to be missing a couple of obvious things that might solve the problem

I assume you have some bills that show the address you were actually living at, during the time you are accused of living in the E London flat? If you do, then you should send these to your solicitor (or directly to the ones chasing you for payment) and strongly assert that you did not live in the E London flat.

Secondly, is there someone who is prepared to swear an affidavit to state you were living elsewhere at the time?

Also, suggest that the solicitor chasing you for the money checks the electoral roll - this will show that you didn't live at the property (Actually, it doesn't do that - it only shows that you did not register to vote, at that property. You can live at a property and never appear on the electoral roll, though I think it's an offence not to register ... but I digress).

I think you have a couple of problems here. It's very difficult to prove a negative .. far easier to prove that you did live somewhere, as opposed to proving that you didn't.

Also .... what if they ran up other debts in your name? It sounds like they didn't, as you have your credit reports, but watch out. Check your reports regularly.

Note, that you don't actually have to live in a property to be liable for payment of the rent. However, in your case, the issue is one of fraud ... someone forged your signature on the tenancy agreement.

Finally ... you should follow this procedure to have the CCJ set aside.

HTH

qaklush

benjamin wrote:

What a horrible situation.

Personally I would not pay a penny to stop any charges and would gladly fight this in court. Presumably the landlord could not even describe what you look like, and if you have documentary evidence that you have been payinig to live at a different address then I would think you could make your case fairly easily.

I am not a lawyer though!

Would the police consider instigating a criminal investigation against the people who have done this to you? Maybe the estate agent or landlord could identify the people and/or they could fingerprint the contract?

Ben

Thanks Ben for reply....yes the landlord has never met me and I have never met the landlord (I did give my solicitor copy of my passport, marriage certificate (as I was single when this happened) as proof of ID but as yet nothing about this has come up in letters or conversations) - it appears to me that the landlord's solicitor is only interested in getting the money and won't budge an inch - since contacting me in March they haven't acknowledged what has happended to the other person who obviously obtained the tenancy and DID live there and if they managed to track him down.

I would be able to prove the case more easily but unfortunately my personal details were used to obtain the tenancy and my signature was forged and then it was faxed - which I find hard to believe as normally a tenancy has be signed in person by all tenants (I have rented myself) even the police thought this was odd behaviour yet why did the letting agency and landlord do it this way?

I spent several hours in local police station and spent at least 45 mins with a PC who even did a search on my ex but to no avail (to make matters worse my ex and his acquaintance are not British Citizens so probably don't have many records listed in this country). They didn't seem to think it was a big deal on their part to investigage - I felt like I was wasting their time (but then they don't have people chasing them for over £8,000!). The landlord, in their view, is the victim in all this although they did appreciate what I was going through as well. I have spent £500 to date on solicitor fees (just for letters and couple of meetings) and this doesn't include if it should go to court...

qaklush

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

You say you have a solicitor dealing with this for you? I hope you're not paying them a lot of money, as they seem to be missing a couple of obvious things that might solve the problem

I assume you have some bills that show the address you were actually living at, during the time you are accused of living in the E London flat? If you do, then you should send these to your solicitor (or directly to the ones chasing you for payment) and strongly assert that you did not live in the E London flat.

Secondly, is there someone who is prepared to swear an affidavit to state you were living elsewhere at the time?

Also, suggest that the solicitor chasing you for the money checks the electoral roll - this will show that you didn't live at the property (Actually, it doesn't do that - it only shows that you did not register to vote, at that property. You can live at a property and never appear on the electoral roll, though I think it's an offence not to register ... but I digress).

I think you have a couple of problems here. It's very difficult to prove a negative .. far easier to prove that you did live somewhere, as opposed to proving that you didn't.

Also .... what if they ran up other debts in your name? It sounds like they didn't, as you have your credit reports, but watch out. Check your reports regularly.

Note, that you don't actually have to live in a property to be liable for payment of the rent. However, in your case, the issue is one of fraud ... someone forged your signature on the tenancy agreement.

Finally ... you should follow this procedure to have the CCJ set aside.

HTH

Thanks for your reply and advice....have spent £500 so far on my solicitor (couple of meetings and several letters) since March but to keep the costs down I have obtained some evidence myself that I did not live at this property during and around the time. My solicitor recently sent them a draft Witness Statement of seven pages to tell my side of the story enclosing the address evidence (but the landlord's solicitor reckons it doesn't prove anything!). My sister also gave my solicitor a letter confirming that I lived with her during the time in question (as evidence). They also have a letter from my local Council showing that I was registered in West London from 2000 to present day (one year before and four years after the alleged tenancy period).

Somerset

qaklush

This is horrible for you. But I think you'll have a hell of a job proving this wasn't your tenancy, if you go to Court. As you said, you've been stitched up. On the face of it, all the evidence supports the fact that this is your debt ... the signed tenancy agreement, apparently your signature on it, your old workplace fax address on it. As somebody else said, where you lived during the time is irrelevant, if it's your tenancy, you're responsible for the debt.
Now I understand what you've been saying - it's essentially identity theft & forgery, but I don't know how you prove it. To be honest, the landlord probably thinks you're just trying it on and his lawyers won't listen to you. If it goes to Court, the onus must be on you to prove all this ( landlord has proof of alleged debt ) and I don't know how you'll do that.

Sorry for being so negative.... but you're in a tough one.

Good Luck

sportbeth

Surely the emphasis on this should be that the Landlord has to prove it is you rather than you proving it is not?

If you have evidence of not living at this address, e.g. bills, bank statements, car registration, mail order deliveries, work payslips etc all directed to a different address not to mention the dozens of witnesses (family, friends etc) that would suggest that you lived all that time at another address, then it is down to the landlord to prove it was you.

I feel for the other guy as the victim, and as the fraud victim I feel for you too, but surely you have every bit of evidence to prove that it wasn't you and if they think you are lying then they have to prove otherwise. The fact that someone has forged "being" you doesn't mean that this is your issue to sort out.

If this was a murder scene and someone shouted out my name as they were running away, would it not be easy to prove that it wasn't me with an alibi? This is the same scenario. Just because someone else has given your name doesn't mean you are responsible. They have to prove it

qaklush

sportbeth wrote:

Surely the emphasis on this should be that the Landlord has to prove it is you rather than you proving it is not?

If you have evidence of not living at this address, e.g. bills, bank statements, car registration, mail order deliveries, work payslips etc all directed to a different address not to mention the dozens of witnesses (family, friends etc) that would suggest that you lived all that time at another address, then it is down to the landlord to prove it was you.

I feel for the other guy as the victim, and as the fraud victim I feel for you too, but surely you have every bit of evidence to prove that it wasn't you and if they think you are lying then they have to prove otherwise. The fact that someone has forged "being" you doesn't mean that this is your issue to sort out.

If this was a murder scene and someone shouted out my name as they were running away, would it not be easy to prove that it wasn't me with an alibi? This is the same scenario. Just because someone else has given your name doesn't mean you are responsible. They have to prove it

Thanks for the support Sportbeth....I totally agree with you. Firstly, why should I have to pay for a person's debt that I do not know, for a flat I never rented or lived in, with a landlord I have never met! They wouldn't know me from Adam and I only know the landlord is foreign from the spelling of his name but that doesn't mean I know what he looks like. My husband said to me that the landlord should be made to 'identify' me in court and if he failed to do this, then that proves he does not know me. You have brought up some very serious and 'obvious' points that the solicitors are failing to see and if they do see, don't appear to want to investigate down that road because this case, dragging on for nearly seven months now, is paying them a nice little fee. Either way I will try to prove my case until I'm blue in the face but just hope that if it goes to court, any judge will see there are two sides to every story and that I'm more credible than the landlord and his dodgy tenant.

Debt_Free_Chick

qaklush wrote:

Either way I will try to prove my case until I'm blue in the face but just hope that if it goes to court, any judge will see there are two sides to every story and that I'm more credible than the landlord and his dodgy tenant.

Why have you or your solicitor not applied to have the CCJ set aside?

Whether or not this is your debt, you can have the CCJ set aside simply because you did not receive the summons ......

qaklush

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

Why have you or your solicitor not applied to have the CCJ set aside?

Whether or not this is your debt, you can have the CCJ set aside simply because you did not receive the summons ......

Thanks for advice....and very sorry to all those who replied earlier but I got 'confused' about the position of the CCJ against me (but then my mind is all over the place at the moment and never having been in such a position before, am only finding these things out along the way...but let me explain again below).

The CCJ hasn't actually been issued yet but I am being threatened with one. The document I received back in March of this year (with the letter from the acting solicitor) was in fact an Order For Possession dated 1 March 2002. This means that the person living at this flat must not have been paying his rent and then the landlord got a solicitor to arrange an Order For Possession through the court. The court ruled in favour of the landlord (Claimant) without attendance by the Defendents (well I wouldn't have been there!) In the court order it says that the defendants had to leave the property by the 15 March 2002 and that full payment for rent arrears, plus intesest, plus court cost to landlord had to be paid from the 15 March 2002 and until they left the property - if this didn't happen it would be recorded as a CCJ against our names (which wasn't done??). Low and behold three years later almost to the date I get a letter out of the blue (after they manage to track me down all this time?) that the fees are now in access of £7,000 (to include daily interest) and if I don't pay up, will have a CCJ enforced on me! So far, I have, through paying a solicitor from my own pocket, have managed to put a stop to the CCJ and the daily interest they have added but now I'm having to face going to court to prove my innocence (which is the hard part when somebody used your details to obtain a tenancy!).