Supplements for arthritis

Cute_'n'_Quirky

I don't have arthritis in my knees - yet! I have RA. However the Rheumatologist said that it is still a good idea to take it.

The Glucosamine has been well-documented

My Rheumatologist said that taking more than 1000mg of Glucosamine per day showed no improvement on the basic 1g - so I had been buying the 1000mg myself.

I pay a yearly prescription fee so the cost is immaterial to me.

Ted_Hutchinson

Cute_n_Quirky wrote: »

I don't have arthritis in my knees - yet! I have RA. However the Rheumatologist said that it is still a good idea to take it.

I'm not saying don't take it, I'm just pointing out that almost as many people who take it don't respond as those who do. If you are a responder then that's fine for you.

The Glucosamine has been well-documented

This Is a typical example. I've read the full text so I'm confident that what I say is fair and reasonable. If you try glucosamine and it doesn't show any improvement over 3months then you will be wasting your money.

My Rheumatologist said that taking more than 1000mg of Glucosamine per day showed no improvement on the basic 1g - so I had been buying the 1000mg myself.

1000mg = 1g I think you mean 1500mg (this is the usual dosage) If you find that suits you then fine. Most sources quote 1500mg as the usual effective amount. 3 x 500mg daily is the same. Using more than that would be a waste of money probably.

I pay a yearly prescription fee so the cost is immaterial to me

Perhaps other readers share my concerns over not placing unreasonable demands on the NHS.

There are of course other anti inflammatory supplements. These are the suggestions DirectMS suggest for that inflammatory condition. I use much the same list for mine. Be aware that people with low vitamin D status experience more pain for longer than people with optimal status. That's one of the reasons why the Direct MS folk recommend an effective amount.

Also it's worth noting that fat cells are a source of pro-inflammatory cytokines. Reducing the size of you fat cells by using a low carbohydrate diet will therefore lower your inflammatory cytokine status as well as your blood pressure and the pressure on your joints.

blue-kat

Ted_Hutchinson wrote: »

. Be aware that people with low vitamin D status experience more pain for longer than people with optimal status......

any info on what is good way to increase vit D levels, and hopefully reduce pain?

I had a very low vit D test ( also low calcium) , and was treated with intra muscular injections and 2 ergocalciferol 1.25mg tablets per month. would it be helpful to buy extra vit D OTC ?
I try to get plenty of sunshine, although this is limited by needing afternoon bedrest.

back on topic, a GP suggested using a glucosamine tablet paired with painkiller for bone pain.

Unity

Lynsey76 wrote: »

Lots of people use Rosehip now as well, capsules or syrup. Litozin has had rave reviews from my customers in Boots, although expensive at £19.99 they buy it on 3 for 2.

I've tried these, but whilst they may help mild conditions, IMHO they aren't worth the money for more advanced cases, I'm much better with the Glucosamine and 1000mg of fish oil .

Cute_'n'_Quirky

I take Glucosamine along with Flaxseed Oil and a Vitamin C at 1mg

Along with Sulfasalazine, Arcoxia and Tramadol

Cute_'n'_Quirky

Ted_Hutchinson wrote: »

I'm not saying don't take it, I'm just pointing out that almost as many people who take it don't respond as those who do. If you are a responder then that's fine for you.


This Is a typical example. I've read the full text so I'm confident that what I say is fair and reasonable. If you try glucosamine and it doesn't show any improvement over 3months then you will be wasting your money.
1000mg = 1g I think you mean 1500mg (this is the usual dosage) If you find that suits you then fine. Most sources quote 1500mg as the usual effective amount. 3 x 500mg daily is the same. Using more than that would be a waste of money probably.
Perhaps other readers share my concerns over not placing unreasonable demands on the NHS.

There are of course other anti inflammatory supplements. These are the suggestions DirectMS suggest for that inflammatory condition. I use much the same list for mine. Be aware that people with low vitamin D status experience more pain for longer than people with optimal status. That's one of the reasons why the Direct MS folk recommend an effective amount.

Also it's worth noting that fat cells are a source of pro-inflammatory cytokines. Reducing the size of you fat cells by using a low carbohydrate diet will therefore lower your inflammatory cytokine status as well as your blood pressure and the pressure on your joints.

No, I meant 1g which is the recommended dosage according to research

I have RA. A Vit D supplement is not going to touch my pain anyway.

Most RA patients end up with really bad OA whether they want it or not.
My blood pressure is perfect at 120/70 and I follow a low-carb diet.

I am 45 and need an ankle replacement and hand surgery. I worked in medicine for 24 years but had to give up my work due to my hands.

Have had all the cortisone injections, which do work but am only allowed a limited number as it damages joint and tissue

Am starting acupuncture treatment through the NHS next week.

Unity

Good luck with the acupuncture, I also had this on the NHS and found it to be quite helpful with nerve pain where my sciatic nerve is trapped.

Cute_n_Quirky wrote: »

No, I meant 1g which is the recommended dosage according to research

I have RA. A Vit D supplement is not going to touch my pain anyway.

Most RA patients end up with really bad OA whether they want it or not.
My blood pressure is perfect at 120/70 and I follow a low-carb diet.

I am 45 and need an ankle replacement and hand surgery. I worked in medicine for 24 years but had to give up my work due to my hands.

Have had all the cortisone injections, which do work but am only allowed a limited number as it damages joint and tissue

Am starting acupuncture treatment through the NHS next week.

Ted_Hutchinson

Cute_n_Quirky wrote: »

No, I meant 1g which is the recommended dosage according to research

If you look at this independent medical website BANDOLIER looking at evidence based treatments you will see how they compare the different trials for glucosamine and you will be able to see what the usual dosage is for research purposes. I always check my facts before I post to this forum, it would be helpful is others did the same.

I have RA. A Vit D supplement is not going to touch my pain anyway.

Most RA patients end up with really bad OA whether they want it or not.

That is probably the case if you use the current recommended daily amounts of vitamin d.

If on the other hand you made the effort to see what the latest research shows about how much vitamin d is required to raise status sufficiently to enable your body to store Vitamin D3 you would see considerably more than the RDA is needed.

If you look at this paper you will see what the 25(OH)D status the average UK adult has both in winter and summer.

Compare those levels with the levels shown in the first paper and you see that in winter the average UK adult has about a quarter the Vitamin d needed and in summer it rises to just under half.

If a building such as a school or hospital was protected but with only a quarter of the required sprinklers system working would that system to put out a fire?

If the building had only half it's sprinkler system working it would cope better.

Surely you can see that if our bodies naturally plateau at a particular level it is possible that is the natural level our systems work best at.

You will see that Hollis and Wagner were working with breast feeding mothers to see at what level the amount of vitamin D in breast milk was optimised.

That seems to me a sensible natural marker of optimum vitamin d status.

For me to achieve that level (125-150nmol/l) I take 5000iu/daily of D3 AND I get as much full body non-burning sun exposure as possible.

I was in constant neurogenic pain in all my joints and I suffered muscle pain as well. I say was because now I have maximised my Vitamin D, omega 3, magnesium and other natural anti inflammatory status and reduced my pro inflammatory status I have not used a pain killer for over a year.

Low vitamin D tied to back pain in older women Bear in mind the cost of treating vitamin d insufficiency with 5000iu/d vitamin d3 is 3p/daily and it brings with it other benefits apart from the potential of lower pain levels. Besides chronic pain
vitamin D deficiency is associated with cancer, cardiovascular disease, hypertension, stroke, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, periodontal disease, macular degeneration, mental illness and propensity to fall.

Unity

Ted_Hutchinson wrote: »

If you look at this independent medical website BANDOLIER looking at evidence based treatments you will see how they compare the different trials for glucosamine and you will be able to see what the usual dosage is for research purposes. I always check my facts before I post to this forum, it would be helpful is others did the same.

That is probably the case if you use the current recommended daily amounts of vitamin d.

If on the other hand you made the effort to see what the latest research shows about how much vitamin d is required to raise status sufficiently to enable your body to store Vitamin D3 you would see considerably more than the RDA is needed.

If you look at this paper you will see what the 25(OH)D status the average UK adult has both in winter and summer.

Compare those levels with the levels shown in the first paper and you see that in winter the average UK adult has about a quarter the Vitamin d needed and in summer it rises to just under half.

If a building such as a school or hospital was protected but with only a quarter of the required sprinklers system working would that system to put out a fire?

If the building had only half it's sprinkler system working it would cope better.

Surely you can see that if our bodies naturally plateau at a particular level it is possible that is the natural level our systems work best at.

You will see that Hollis and Wagner were working with breast feeding mothers to see at what level the amount of vitamin D in breast milk was optimised.

That seems to me a sensible natural marker of optimum vitamin d status.

For me to achieve that level (125-150nmol/l) I take 5000iu/daily of D3 AND I get as much full body non-burning sun exposure as possible.

I was in constant neurogenic pain in all my joints and I suffered muscle pain as well. I say was because now I have maximised my Vitamin D, omega 3, magnesium and other natural anti inflammatory status and reduced my pro inflammatory status I have not used a pain killer for over a year.

Low vitamin D tied to back pain in older women Bear in mind the cost of treating vitamin d insufficiency with 5000iu/d vitamin d3 is 3p/daily and it brings with it other benefits apart from the potential of lower pain levels. Besides chronic pain
vitamin D deficiency is associated with cancer, cardiovascular disease, hypertension, stroke, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, periodontal disease, macular degeneration, mental illness and propensity to fall.

Is there a particular manufacturer of Vitamin D3 supplement that you recommend? I'd be interested in giving this a try.

Thanks.

Ted_Hutchinson

Unity wrote: »

Is there a particular manufacturer of Vitamin D3 supplement that you recommend? I'd be interested in giving this a try.

Thanks.

The important thing is to use Cholecalciferol I use Bio-Tech Vitamin D3 but I have been told that VITALADY.COM are a little cheaper as they do an own brand (made by Biotech) for a tad less. As I usually buy two pots of 250 x 5000iu it will be a while before I reorder and find out how much Vitalady charge for postage.
2 pots of 250 x 5000iu Bio-tech cost about £20 including p&p so around 4p daily altogether.

Dr Davis of the Heartscanblog recommends 2x Carlson, Vitamin D, 2000 IU, 360 Soft Gels daily $11.28 there is a code for $5 off your first Iherb order in the referrals board.

Holland and Barrett do 1000iu for £7.49 but you would need to take 5 daily 37p/d

Those who do follow my links will see from Figure 1 here that using 5000iu/daily will take between 70-120 days starting from a baseline around 70nmol/l to achieve optimal status. Most UK adults will only achieve 70nmol/l at the end of summer so starting from 40nmol/l will take a bit longer although you will see that during the initial stages the rise in status is steep and the rate of increase tails off as your body's daily needs are satisfied and some starts being put into store.