Moral Debt Dilema

dexters_mum_2

Hi all

My husband runs a small business that his parents helped set up and take a small proportion of the profits, I mean very small really, but they put in all the money and husband runs it.

Due to his previous credit problems, he was unable to get a business bank account and his parents opened one on his behalf, he has a Visa card and is signatory to the bank account etc.

I have been helping him out the last few days, as he's been up to his eyeballs in other things.

I found a list of all things which haven't been paid, the total is some £11k :eek:

Further, I also found a summons for a court appearence for Monday in respect of non payment of business rates of £900. Husband reckons it will be OK because they just send a bailiff and they'll work out a repayment plan. However, this is the second time he has defaulted on non payment of business rates and the bailiff wasn't particularly caring the first time.

He won't attend court as he says he admits liability, that's fine but on the letter is says they could impose an attachment of earnings or press for banruptcy or liquidation or commital to prison.

I am so concerned as he has not told me about the fact he has so much outstanding and the threat of court action on Monday.

I know his parents are not aware of the problems and I am worried that all the arrears he is racking up are somehow going to affect them credit wise as a lot of the bills are in their names.

DH is completely ignorant about this, even though he has been in worse debt before and got it sorted fine, but now he lies to me that everythijng is fine and gets angry if I say I don't believe him. I know the business is due about £9k in shortly, but still not enough to cover everything.

I've taken all the paperwork away to try to do some figures for the business but he got really aggressive and started shouting at me and pushing me. I asked him was the first thing I was going to know about all of this was when he called me from wormwood scrubs?

I don't know whether to tell his parents, I believe that they would be able to financially help him out if they knew. I am also concerned about the impact this will have on thier credit files too.

Do I make/let husband tell them or tell them myself. I know DH wouldn't tell them given the choice but he'll be so angry if I go behind his back, but I can't cope with the worry.

DM

Lula-Hula

Hi,

first of all well done for posting, a problem shared is easier to bear. I would suggest the fact that your OH has hidden this from you means he is very worried, but doesnt know how to deal with it.

You certainly should not have to cope alone with all the worry & stress & hiding it from his parents when you know they could be liable for certain bills is just adding to your load.

In my personal & by no means professional opinion I think you should let him know that if he doesnt tell them (before monday I think) then you will, as you are worried & stressed & you think it unfair that they should be kept in the dark as they are liable for some of the debts.

I would centainly want to know if I was them & although he may be angry at first this is probably due to his own anxiety about the situation & possible feelings of shame. If everyone knows the truth of the situation then it may be possible to work out a solution together. By keeping secrets you are merely increasing your own anxiety & stress which is of no help to anyone & completely unfair on you.

good luck & i hope others will be along soon to offer more advice.

Lula

chevalier

Sadly I think you are going to have to tell them
Why because this is their money too he is playing with. Especially with the hearing on Monday. If they bankrupt the business, then that is all their money lost too.

Also he absolutely MUST attend on Monday, the fact that he has messed up the same debt before, means that it could be really serious this time. He has to be there with a repayment plan in place and some cast iron guarantees that he will stick with this one.

I have to wonder though what is really going on. Because you say that he has been in debt before but got out of that fine, but now seems to have had a complete change of way of working, and is burying his head in the sand.

And it will affect you if this all goes down the tubes, so that is something else for him to think about the next time he gets upset with you for trying to help. By the way no way would I let him get away with pushing you, that can be a slippery slope. If he has made a mess up of things, then fair enough, you can work through this together. But that NEVER gives him the right to push you around.

chev

poorandindenial

Hi DM

So sorry to hear that you have just uncovered this. I have a few comments and I don't want you to take them the wrong way, I mean them with the best will in the world.

First, do you know WHY the debts have accumulated, is it because the business actually isn't viable, or is it because the money has been spent on stuff not for the business??

Second, he has hid this from you and that must be hard to deal with, I am not going to judge on that, there are plenty of people on here that have debts that are hid from their OHs, but it must be hard for you to have found this out and he must feel like crap for having hid it from you and a lot of his anger will be because he has been 'found out' that said you menioned that he started pushing you that is NOT OK.

Third, he has not told his parents who have an interest in the business, this is unfair of him, they may be able to bail him out financially but should they have to do it?? (especially as he has had problems in business before, there is nothing to say that this wouldn't happen again if they did bail him out if he hasn't learnt his lesson from before.) Who is registered as owning the business at companies house?? They may unwittingly have some liability for this debt.

Sorry I haven't really answered the question, but you would do well to speak to the business arm of nationaldebtline.co.uk (I think it is businessdebtline.co.uk) they will be able to tell you where you stand and the best course of action to take

phantom9999

Are his parents partners in his business? If so you must tell them about the debt - partners in a partnership are jointly liable for debts so the bailiffs may go round to see them.

Good luck with everything

dexters_mum_2

Firstly I would like to say an enormous thank you to all of you.

I have been onto the Business Debtline website which I showed him and showed him that he MUST attend his court appearance, especially as his last payment arrangement failed, but unfortunately, he was not wanting to listen.

I know he is embarrassed but I am also worried, I found a letter today, hidden somewhere where I believe he knew I would find it, with another intention to take him to court.

I've also found that there has also been another woman on the scene last year, unfortunately, which hasn't made it any easier, though at the moment, I can deal with that, I just need to deal with the debts he has and of course, my husband.

I tried approaching it from a positive point of view 'I'll help you' I'll help you write some letters' 'Lets do a budget planner' etc but he walked out and 5pm and hasn't come back, he's not answering his phone either.

I haven't yet told his parents, they are not formal partners but they do have bills in their names, posted to the business address which he was paying, unfortunately money and work has dried up, just as a result of the credit crunch, the business had some savings but had only been operation since Feb 07, so not much time to accrue money before the slide. As mentioned the bank account is in their names, not husband's.

As I was in uni when he started up the business, I wasn't able to get a business bank account and I felt committed financially to my mortgage, car and credit card, which are comfortable payments for me to make.

In the past he had a loan and cards but fell ill and was unable to pay them back, he has settled a few and has just a few months left on his PayPlan plan, which he entered in April 2007 and has managed to pay off quickly because some creditors have accepted his F&F settlement, which he has managed to pay.

So this is where we are, a husband who won't listen, sticks his head in the sand and runs away.

Wat can you do when someone won't let you help them, I feel incredibly desperate and helpless and I have sent him texts just begging him to come home but he just replies periodically with 'I'm not telling you where I am' and 'I'm not coming home, it's over', though I haven't heard from him in the last 45 minutes.

Deary me....

DM

Nala

Hun I don't have any words of wisdom I'm afraid. Lots of advice has already been given with regards to the debt/business/parents. Unfortunately if your OH doesn't get his head out of the sand I don't know where you go from here.

The biggest thing for me that jumped out of your initial post is that he became angry enough to push you! Please don't let (don't think 'let' is the right word but you know what I mean) this escalate.

x

TeetersOnHeels

Read your post this morning before I had to go out. I was married to someone who had his head permanently stuck in the sand & I know how desperate and sometimes helpless you can feel - felt like tearing my hair out lots of times!!
Think you've been given some great advice, and just wanted to bump this up a bit in case it catches someone elses eye. Hope by now your hubby's come home with a clear head wanting to sort things out...

realshannon

Hi just read this one, wondered how you were getting on - I feel the parents should know what is happening, they are involved and probably think everything is hunky dorey - if the work is drying up maybe now is the time to close the business and let him work for someone else without the risks. He does need to be savvy to run a business any business, you need to think about yourself ultimately - as you have said you cant help someone who doesnt want to be helped but it isnt just his money he is playing with - with a totally different scenario my hubby has found Business Debtline very helpful and supportive but he made the calls and did the do. sounds like you have alot going on but please think of you first, Number 1, always, pushing and shoving and verbal abuse does amount to domestic violence - take care