Nationwide mortgage... Guarantor??

Ian_Griffiths_Halifax

homer_j could you amend your post for me to show that you are responding to rdsmortgageman please :rotfl:

homer_j_3

Ian - I do not work independently, I am whole of market. I charge a fee for administration of research and refund this fee when this completes or if I cannot help so I have no requirement to talk about the tax implications of independent advice and in most cases where you are a pure MA, you do not have the authorisation to make any comment other than there may be a tax liability.

So we agree that the cost of advice relates to cost of running the business and yes experience does count for a lot but I would take the challenge of anybody with 15-30-40 years experience on providing a solution to a customer requiring a mortgage and we will see what difference that makes to my experience.

So lets look at the quote that I have not read properly.

Anybody who doesn't charge a fee must be getting their income from somewhere and it's usually through selling policies that aren't always needed or wanted or affordable.

my response to this point was

but trying to say that a broker who does not charge will provide bad advice and unaffordable protection advice is fairly offensive to those good advisers who do not charge a fee because they have managed to run their business in a way which keeps overheads down.

How can they recommend lenders who pay nothing or very little as a procuration fee if they don't charge either?

my repsonse to this point was

The income derives from procuration fees and you are right that a charge may be made if the mortgage pays no proc fee

So how have I not read your question. Its just another example of you reading half of something and twisting it to make it fit your argument.

Unfortunately some people are not in a position to pay for the advice and this is an option to get balance of getting advice and a broker to arrange it, while not having to find a fee.

So are you saying that if you can get the same advice for free and people operate this way to bridge the gap of peoples personal affordability or are you saying that the broker who does not charge is just an order taker?

At the end of the day many clients are wanting to keep their outgoings down and if they are happy with their outgoings despite a fee added, (with is more often than not far less than the lenders are charging) then fair enough. If not they can pay on completion and take the funds from their bank account and not incur any interest charges.

So what you are saying? That as long as you can keep the cost of your advice with their monthly affordability when its added to the loan then because your fee is less than the lenders fees, then the consumer should be happy with this? If they do not want to go further into debt and pay it out of their bank account then that is fine also?

So how is that better than getting the same product from some one who does not charge? If the banks paid more commission, which would allow you to pay for your administrater and other overheads, you would be provide your advice for free but you cannot. This is the reason for the cost of advice not because its any better or worse than that of someone who has experience and can offer their advice ultimately for free.

Ian_Griffiths_Halifax

To be honest, the quotes, sub quotes and splitting of quotes are taking the discussion in far too many directions for me to be bothered to respond.

At the end of the day I hate people knocking Fee Charging Brokers or Non-Fee Charging Brokers because they are ignorant of how a company operates.

Just because one person wants to work one way it doesn't mean that everybody does and there is a danger that most people who come on here are wanting to save money and so focus on the argument for using a non-fee charging broker when there are far more out there who charge a fee without it being extortionate and provide a service which may be better, worse or the same service. You have to deal with somebody you trust at the end of the day and go with your gut feeling.

homer_j_3

No Ian,

I am saying that people are free to choose the way they work and they should do to ensure they earn money at the end of the day. I have said that all along so I do not see where we are disagreeing here.

It is the justification and sales techniques of these fees that I was not happy with.

To say that your advice is superior because you wrote the book and that my advice or, those who can operate without needing to charge a fee are just order taking advisers who will openly rob you for everything under the sun, regardless of whether it is needed or not is an example of ignorance.

There will be advisers out there who will flog insurances and these people can usually be found in sales forces. I have come across fee charging, commission taking brokers who would sell lump sum insurances and insurances also.

Its all about keeping the discussion balanced. So, rather than everybody being open and honest about the fact that they charge fees because their overheads mean that if they did not they would not be able to put food on the table, they insist that they must sell their service because it is superior in quality etc. This then becomes salesmanship and justifying fees as cost savings is ridiculous 9 times out of 10 in the mortgage world.

Ian_Griffiths_Halifax

homer_j wrote: »

No Ian,

I am saying that people are free to choose the way they work and they should do to ensure they earn money at the end of the day. I have said that all along so I do not see where we are disagreeing here.

It is the justification and sales techniques of these fees that I was not happy with.

To say that your advice is superior because you wrote the book and that my advice or, those who can operate without needing to charge a fee are just order taking advisers who will openly rob you for everything under the sun, regardless of whether it is needed or not is an example of ignorance.

There will be advisers out there who will flog insurances and these people can usually be found in sales forces. I have come across fee charging, commission taking brokers who would sell lump sum insurances and insurances also.

Its all about keeping the discussion balanced. So, rather than everybody being open and honest about the fact that they charge fees because their overheads mean that if they did not they would not be able to put food on the table, they insist that they must sell their service because it is superior in quality etc. This then becomes salesmanship and justifying fees as cost savings is ridiculous 9 times out of 10 in the mortgage world.

The quality of the advice is a massive swaying factor as to whether or not somebody should pay a fee.

SOME companies, not all, charge BIG fees and provide poor service and recommend from a very small but still technically Whole of Market range of lenders. These are the ones with dodgy sales techniques in order to justify large fees.

Not all brokers who charge a fee and receive the procuration fee as well should been seen as rogues as it is simply their business model.

I have saved many thousands of pounds, many marriages and many people from repossession. I have assisted clients in reducing their mortgage term, buy cars without any increase in outgoings or borrowing and put children though university without any cost to the client. I can very easily justify the moderate fee that I charge without having to put thumb screws on "victims". Nobody on here knows what I charge but I am comfortable with it and so are my clients. They know they get value for money.

rdsmortgageman

Boys, Boys, Boys!

Why are you arguing with each other when you have me here to bully?

homer_j_3

we are not arguing, we are simply discussing our perspectives on the general market place and feelings that every other broker is a scoundrel and we are both not lol.

I am not trying to bully you rds, I think that you have dropped some schoolboy errors on the forum with your enthusiasm and maybe misjudged the purpose of this site. If you do get some business off here then well done for you and I hope it is because of the selfless approach to helping someone rather than not making the angle for them to feel that they have to use you, if you see what I mean.

Ian_Griffiths_Halifax

rdsmortgageman wrote: »

Boys, Boys, Boys!

Why are you arguing with each other when you have me here to bully?

The FSA kick the Banks
The Banks kick the brokers
The brokers kick rdsmortgageman

Where's your problem? :rotfl:

rdsmortgageman

Fair point, I have never used any forums before let alone this one. However

I would like to point out that I did not advise that client to be fraudulent. I was more concerned with the client going to another lender and paying a MIG/HLC for such a small amount of debt.

I am here to help people. If I can boost my business, then I will, but I will do it within the terms of the forum.

rdsmortgageman

Ian_Griffiths_Halifax wrote: »

The FSA kick the Banks
The Banks kick the brokers
The brokers kick rdsmortgageman

Where's your problem? :rotfl:

Don't have a problem mate, think it's quite funny really.

Lets all pick on the new boy.