'BTL Landlords go long'

LillyJ

boinging wrote: »

I still shocked, that people are not in favour of lower house prices and don't see them as a positive thing.

It's better for FTB's and for people moving up the ladder as the house they buy is cheaper as a percentage of the drop in the house being sold. The only people affected are those downsizing and those who borrowed out of their depth at the top of cycle.

They are a good thing, but more BTLers snapping up bargains is not a good thing!!!! How can you not see that?! It is them that have created the whole mess in teh first place!

boinging_2

MrDT wrote: »

Surely in this extreme example the gap between valuation and sale price is pretty inconsequential to the seller? If I bought comfortably for maybe £3k in the seventies and then sold today for £110k I wouldn't be crying over the £30k I'd 'lost' on the overblown valuation...

'worth £140k' mightn't be 100% accurate, but the realised capital gain for this landlord would far outweigh any paper losses (yes, after adjusting for inflation) I'm sure.

How many BTL landlords do you think started in 1970 and have this option open to them? These people will also be approaching 60 odd and be thinking of getting the cash and retiring not expanding their portfolio.

A lot of BTL people are Johnny come lately who watched the property !!!!!! shows on Channel 4 and saw an easy £.

Fred1_2

As a very small scale BTLer, I won't be buying anything for a very long time. I want to be sure that I'm buying pretty much near the trough of the market.

As for selling, I don't ever intend to do that. I want to go into retirement with rents coming in and no mortgages to pay out.

WTF?_2

LillyJ wrote: »

They are a good thing, but more BTLers snapping up bargains is not a good thing!!!! How can you not see that?! It is them that have created the whole mess in teh first place!

There's always a certain section of the property market taken up by professional landlords. They tend to be people with a long-term portfolio and usually have quick access to cash/credit.

You seem to think that they will support the entire market by putting a floor under it as prices start to fall.

That is completely unrealistic. First, there aren't enough people with bags of money to stop the slide in prices and second, anyone with a great big bag of cash would be smart enough to know not to jump into a falling market anyway. Why would they spend their cash reserves if they suspected they could get the property much cheaper 6-12 months down the line?

Also, they would still be looking to leverage their investment which means that tough credit conditions still hinder them.


This is just another variation on the notion that there are bags of frustrated would-be buyers just waiting to spend their cash once prices have fallen x% irrespective of general financial/credit conditions and a still-plunging market.

Get over it - prices are going to fall to a level that the market is willing to bear. No amount of wishful thinking about the cavalry riding in to save the day for unaffordable houses is going to change that.

LillyJ

!!!!!!? wrote: »

There's always a certain section of the property market taken up by professional landlords. They tend to be people with a long-term portfolio and usually have quick access to cash/credit.

You seem to think that they will support the entire market by putting a floor under it as prices start to fall.

That is completely unrealistic. First, there aren't enough people with bags of money to stop the slide in prices and second, anyone with a great big bag of cash would be smart enough to know not to jump into a falling market anyway. Why would they spend their cash reserves if they suspected they could get the property much cheaper 6-12 months down the line?

Also, they would still be looking to leverage their investment which means that tough credit conditions still hinder them.


This is just another variation on the notion that there are bags of frustrated would-be buyers just waiting to spend their cash once prices have fallen x% irrespective of general financial/credit conditions and a still-plunging market.

Get over it - prices are going to fall to a level that the market is willing to bear. No amount of wishful thinking about the cavalry riding in to save the day for unaffordable houses is going to change that.

When did I say I didn't think prices were going to fall. NEVER. When did I say that BTLs will keep the market up. NEVER.

Do not put words in my mouth. All I have said is that

BTLs are NOT GOOD FOR FTBs. IF anyone disagrees with that, then fine, but I doubt you do.

boinging_2

LillyJ wrote: »

They are a good thing, but more BTLers snapping up bargains is not a good thing!!!! How can you not see that?! It is them that have created the whole mess in teh first place!

What is a bargain? When does the BTL move in? How many are there out there ready to do this?

We debated last night around lower prices and affordabilty and you said you cared not about house prices, but again you seem to be debating hard on the subject. Don't worry your new purchase is a home not an investment.

LillyJ

AGAIN I HAVE NOT SAID HOUSE PRICES WILL NOT CRASH. I FEEL BAD FOR FTBs WHO MAY AGAIN BE PIPPED TO THE POST BY BTLs. I AM ON YOUR SIDE. I THINK MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT THEIR ONLY HOME (ie not second home owners or BTLers) IS A GOOD THING.

Gorgeous_George

LillyJ wrote: »

They are a good thing, but more BTLers snapping up bargains is not a good thing!!!! How can you not see that?! It is them that have created the whole mess in teh first place!

Yes, lower prices are almost always a good thing.

If I buy another house to let to somebody who chooses to rent, that is a good thing.

BTLers did not cause the problem. Without doubt that was the lenders who relaxed the borrowing criteria.

Time for a pint. Back later.

:beer:

GG

boinging_2

LillyJ wrote: »

AGAIN I HAVE NOT SAID HOUSE PRICES WILL NOT CRASH. I FEEL BAD FOR FTBs WHO MAY AGAIN BE PIPPED TO THE POST BY BTLs. I AM ON YOUR SIDE. I THINK MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT THEIR ONLY HOME (ie not second home owners or BTLers) IS A GOOD THING.

Then we are agreed, house prices are falling and this is all good.

LillyJ

boinging wrote: »

Then we are agreed, house prices are falling and this is all good.

Yes finally you see that I am not arguing from the other side, I just feel that a BTLs coming back in to the market is bad for FTBs.