Jekyll and Hyde

fermi

JCS1 wrote: »

And "local paper" is not always what you would consider to be your local one. Depending on how many local courts/geographic area your OR covers, they tend to use just 1 or 2 local papers, rather than 3 or 4.

I don't think I've ever bought the one the notices in my area go in.

It may cover a wide area but I don't think they sell many; at least here where there is a more local and relevant alternative.

sparrabeth

Looking at that list, mine must have gone in the YP, rather than the YEP. No wonder I didn't see it! Bet that means no-one else did either

Top-ranking_bug_2

I deliberately looked in our local paper today to find the BR notices. I had to hunt for them, and when I DID find them, there must have been 20 or so, and from different towns around the county, mixed up with some notices calling on creditors to lodge final claims as the OR was ready to pay final settlement figures - double dutch to me, but I suppose it meant something to someone.

However, I doubt very much - in fact I'd put money on it - that not a single person in our company reads those notices unless they themselves are in a similar position, and they'd be the last ones to say anything. With luck, you'll have the same in your company.

maxmycardagain

hopefully the report will go in my local on a monday, nobody buys it on mondays, only friday+saturday for cars and jobs...

LilyBart

It does seem awfully inconsistent. And Hobo's post and Fermi's quote raise some interesting questions. The vast majority of bankrupts go to the wire in hock to national lending institutions, which form the core readership for the London Gazette. So what, exactly, is the purpose of the local paper advertisement in petitions other than those of local businesses going belly up? I'm starting to wonder whether Max mightn't be right about this being the C21st century equivalent to the stocks and ducking stool....
Lily (feeling very grim, and very thick, about to have long conversation with cccs about the stuff on tax etc that I *still* don't understand)

fermi

LilyBart wrote: »

So what, exactly, is the purpose of the local paper advertisement in petitions other than those of local businesses going belly up? I'm starting to wonder whether Max mightn't be right about this being the C21st century equivalent to the stocks and ducking stool....

The purpose really is as stated. It is "supposed" to allow any potential creditors in the bankrupts area the opportunity to find out about the bankruptcy.

That can actually be a valid issue in some cases, because even in personal bankruptcy it's not that unusual for someone to go bankrupt owing money to local traders/companies/people who couldn't possibly be expected to subscribe to the London gazette.

But the problem in my eyes lies in the fact that is is very much not a "C21st century" process. It is decidedly archaic in fact. In this day and age advertisement in a local or regional paper is probably an irrelevant and futile gesture towards making any unknown creditors aware of the bankruptcy.

It seems like the government and the authorities agree with that opinion, because along with the budget it was announced that:

From: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/E/3 ... se_524.pdf

Addressing the environment that shapes fear of failure

2.44 The regulatory and legal framework may seem a world away from enterprise aspirations, but people pick up signals from its operation that shape their perceptions around risk and failure. It is within government’s control to influence this, and we will build on earlier changes around insolvency rules.

2.45 The insolvency legislation currently requires insolvency officers to advertise key insolvency events in a newspaper in each and every case. In order to remove unnecessary burdens on creditors of insolvent estates the Government proposes to change the law by the end of 2009 so that insolvency officers have discretion to decide whether or not to place an advertisement in the local press, having regard to the particular circumstances of the case. As virtually all advertisements currently placed appear in local newspapers, this change is likely to lead to a reduction in the perceived level of stigma associated with bankruptcy. Notices will continue to be published in the London, Edinburgh and Belfast Gazettes.

LilyBart

I'd love to believe that this is a rare case of bureaucratic enlightenment, but I expect that it is in the government's interest to remove some stigma from bankruptcy in advance of the inevitable escalation in petitions this year. If the stigma of "failure" remains, the government will be seen as having failed too, and this (I'd bet) will be first of many attempts to change attitudes on that basis. Sorry, not very well expressed, but I hope you see what I mean.

fermi

I do understand what you mean.

Whatever public spin is put on it, I wouldn't expect the government (or any government, past, present or future) to act out of any other motivation than their own interest.

LilyBart

It's a fascinating issue, this question of striking a balance between punishment and rehabilitation.
At least, I would find it so if it weren't so hideous actually going through it!

milpool

A friend of mine who went BR couldn't speak highly enough of their OR. However I'm with the OR same office and the person I've had to deal with is a complete !!!! I let him get away with it when I was having my interview but then on another occasion when I had to speak to him I gave him a complete dressing down and told him that throught the BR process he was the most obnoxious person I have had to deal with.
I think some people forget that they are there to help sort out your estate and not to judge you. This bloke would have been better working for Moorcroft

Whilst on the subject of the OR I rang them up the other day to speak to my appointed person and I was told they had left! Nice of them to let me know!!

Don't let them speak to you like a piece of dirt and remind them that you are not a criminal.