It was the BTLers' fault?

sarkin

Nice post Laughing Man that just about sums up what I have been thinking

snoopy78

http://www.findaproperty.com/displaystory.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0&storyid=21542

I think the BTL investor is being blamed for a lot more than they should be, read the above article, only 7% of property price increase are due to the BTL.

Cheap credit and the British mindset about houses, is to blame.

Who should people not be allowed to invest in there futures? I wish my father would have got himself a BTL instead of a pension, which he has no understanding of and left him with a huge whole in his future finances. BTL has also pushed down rent figures for the past few years, lets not forget that companies have been doing BTL for years why should ordinary people not be allowed?

EdInvestor

Laughing_Man wrote: »

We have several brands of speculator in this market, not only BTL, but holders of 100%+IO mortgages, who are essentially betting on a rising market to build equity for them.

Indeed we do.

+There are the "flippers",who buy new-build flats off plan and hope to sell them on for a profit before they have to complete the purchase

+There are the "gearers", who extract equity from each property so as to provide a deposit for the next one, thus building a large portfolio of both properties and mortgages.

Both these speculators rely on a rising market.

+There are the "sell to renters", effectively short sellers, who own property and then sell out in the hope of being able to buy back later when prices have fallen .

These speculators are hoping for a falling market.


Serious buy to let landlords are not speculators. They are either interested in the income from their investment, or, if geared, in long term capital growth (the "pension" investors.) Neither type of genuine BTL investor will be under any pressure by current market trends, which will only affect the speculators.

It's very irritating that so many people persistently confuse the BTL investors with the speculators. It also distorts their analysis of how the market will behave as they assume all BTL landlords are of the speculator type, when these are in the minority..

Alias_Omega

i wish i could buy, but these days have gone..

they were the days when a guy on a single income with 2 kids could afford to buy a house, and not struggle to pay the loan on a used car, or not buy branded clothes for himself, or his wife. Nevermind the endless out pay of child dinner fees, school trips, increasing costs in gas, elec, food, water, petrol.

we struggle on £27,000, god knows how those on minumum wage are going to do it..

Gorgeous_George

EdInvestor wrote: »

... Serious buy to let landlords are not speculators. They are either interested in the income from their investment, or, if geared, in long term capital growth (the "pension" investors.) Neither type of genuine BTL investor will be under any pressure by current market trends, which will only affect the speculators.

It's very irritating that so many people persistently confuse the BTL investors with the speculators. It also distorts their analysis of how the market will behave as they assume all BTL landlords are of the speculator type, when these are in the minority..

My thoughts exactly.

BTL is not property speculation. I think many BTLers are really property speculators.

I will buy my next property when yield is 10%+. Currently, I could buy at 8% ish.

GG

Gorgeous_George

Alias_Omega wrote: »

i wish i could buy, but these days have gone..

they were the days when a guy on a single income with 2 kids could afford to buy a house, and not struggle to pay the loan on a used car, or not buy branded clothes for himself, or his wife. Nevermind the endless out pay of child dinner fees, school trips, increasing costs in gas, elec, food, water, petrol.

we struggle on £27,000, god knows how those on minumum wage are going to do it..

Those on the lowest wages have never been able to have everything. If they could, there would little incentive to work hard and better oneself.

I have never been better off and I earn less than £28K. It all comes to he who waits.

GG

IveSeenTheLight

GavP wrote: »

What makes you so certain that BTLers aren't selling up?

A house opposite me was bought, done up and then rented out to students at the end of last summer. Lo and behold a "For Sale" sign appeared outside a couple of weeks ago.

What evdience do you have that BTLers aren't selling up?

I have two BTL properties, I am not selling either of them

baileysbattlebus

Alias_Omega wrote: »

i wish i could buy, but these days have gone..

they were the days when a guy on a single income with 2 kids could afford to buy a house, and not struggle to pay the loan on a used car, or not buy branded clothes for himself, or his wife. Nevermind the endless out pay of child dinner fees, school trips, increasing costs in gas, elec, food, water, petrol.

we struggle on £27,000, god knows how those on minumum wage are going to do it..

People seem to view the past with rose tinted glasses, not everyone has been able to buy their own home, ever.

We bought an a single income with 3 kids, did we struggle to pay bills, etc, yes. Did we have a car loan, no, couldn't possibly have afforded to pay one.
Did we have branded clothes, no.

Did OH have a good job, yes. Could we in current climate afford our first house again, yes.

In fact just had a look on Rightmove and this is where we had our first house. in the 2nd phase, the house is exactly the same, cost at the time (1986) £23.5k.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-20206571.rsp?pa_n=2&tr_t=buy

Broken_hearted

It was a mixture of everything but mainly the greed of the banks.

kennyboy66_2

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

For years we have had people bleating on about how BTLers have pushed the market up and forced them out of the property market.

Now things have turned and it's not because of a mass BTL exodus.

Do you concede that BTL LLs were NOT the cause of the housing boom? It was slack lending after all.

GG

And there was me thinking that increased demand meant an increase in price. Silly me.