NPower gas 'sculpting'

epsilondraconis

Thanks both for the replies - I will definitely be taking steps to recover the money (and a reasonable amount of compensation for the stress etc).

I'll generate my exact figures at the weekend and send off my letter of complaint / disgust / disappointment.

Not only am I amazed that npower blatantly overcharges in such a way, but it is then the responsibility of the individual customers to claw back this money, rather than relying on Ofgem to take the appropriate steps. They are obviously aware of the npower's practice - oh well such is life I guess.

Also, is it correct that npower has modified the units on the gas figures only or is it also the case for the electricity too? Its just that I appear to have lost one of my electricity statements from the middle of 07 and so it would be difficult to calculate.

Thanks again...


Edit: Sorry just two more questions - in order to produce accurate figures for overcharging, I'm just trying to determine what my starting date should be. I first joined npower in May 05, therefore should I just take each calendar year from that point and calculate the number of units charged during that 12 month period; or is it advised that I target a specific start date (DD cites the price reduction in the May and the price increase in the following January). Moreover, how easy is it to produce accurate figures, when the statement dates aren't the same year on year? Sorry for the additional questions, I was just sitting here thinking (stewing) over it and couldn't easily see how I can produce precise calculations.

Cardew

epsilondraconis wrote: »

Thanks both for the replies - I will definitely be taking steps to recover the money (and a reasonable amount of compensation for the stress etc).

I'll generate my exact figures at the weekend and send off my letter of complaint / disgust / disappointment.

Not only am I amazed that npower blatantly overcharges in such a way, but it is then the responsibility of the individual customers to claw back this money, rather than relying on Ofgem to take the appropriate steps. They are obviously aware of the npower's practice - oh well such is life I guess.

Also, is it correct that npower has modified the units on the gas figures only or is it also the case for the electricity too? Its just that I appear to have lost one of my electricity statements from the middle of 07 and so it would be difficult to calculate.

Thanks again...


Edit: Sorry just two more questions - in order to produce accurate figures for overcharging, I'm just trying to determine what my starting date should be. I first joined npower in May 05, therefore should I just take each calendar year from that point and calculate the number of units charged during that 12 month period; or is it advised that I target a specific start date (DD cites the price reduction in the May and the price increase in the following January). Moreover, how easy is it to produce accurate figures, when the statement dates aren't the same year on year? Sorry for the additional questions, I was just sitting here thinking (stewing) over it and couldn't easily see how I can produce precise calculations.

No [STRIKE]scamming[/STRIKE] sculpting on electricity I understand.

You simply pick a 12 month period where the maximum number of tier 1 units were charged.

DirectDebacle

epsilondraconis wrote: »

Sorry for the additional questions, I was just sitting here thinking (stewing) over it and couldn't easily see how I can produce precise calculations.

As far as I know this overcharging only applies to gas. I was never an electricity customer of npowers' so I cannot comment if this would have impacted on any dual fuel or other conditions that applied.

As far as calculations go I have taken this approach. The old standing charge was replaced with the current two tier pricing system on 1st April, 2003. Therefore in order to be able to establish what a year is for the purposes of the 4572 per annum I have taken the year start/end as 1st April to 31st March of each subsequent year.

In your case for the year 1st april 2005-31st March npower were entitled to charge you for 4572 tier 1 units less 448 units for April 05 and 10.47 units for each day in May up to the day you joined.

e.g. you joined on 10th May 2005.

4572-448= 4124

9 days in May = 94.23

4124-94.23= 4029.77 = 4030 (kWh are rounded up or down)

Year Apr 06 to Mar 07 you should have been charged no more than 4572

Year Apr 07 to Mar 08 again no more than 4572.

From April 08 to the time you leave the amounts are now published on the terms and conditions.

You might also consider this. npower were required under the terms and conditions to notify customers of any changes to the way they charge for gas if it would put the customer at a disadvantage. By not notifying you of the change made to the seasonal weighting on 1st May 2007 you were put at a disadvantage because they breached the contracted 4572 maximum units per annum. As a consequence your costs were increased. If you do not agree with these changes then the changes will not take effect but you are required to change suppliers. All gas supplied will be charged at the rate prior to the change until the time you change suppliers.

npower never gave you the opportunity to agree or disagree with this change as they failed to notify you. You could therefore insist that all gas supplied by them from 1st May 2007 up until the time you change supplier should have been charged at the rates applicable on 30th April 2007. This may or may not be to your advantage.

epsilondraconis

Thanks Cardew. Perhaps I'll apply my own scuplting when I send them my figures...

Edit:

Also thanks DirectDebacle. I was posting this as you were also posting. Thank you very much for the detailed breakdown. I'll be going through my figures very carefully.

Thanks again both, it is much appreciated.

spinningsheep

I worked it out that Npower had overcharged us by some 2000 units at the higher rate, and they agreed with me on the phone back in May, and agreed to recalcuate the bill and place the account on hold. this amount, approx £400 on the gas is from our old property that we moved from 15/05/08. Since then I have been calling them and chasing them, each time to be told that the "complaint" hadn't been raised properly, and would have to be done again, i was told this 4 times. All the meanwhile I was getting reminder letters that the amount was overdue, yada yada, until I get a letter from "collections direct" or something along those lines, which I understand is just Npower trying to scare you into paying as it looks like it may be a debt collector:rolleyes: ). Anyway, on calling them yet again, all ready to tell them fine,take me to court, how silly are they going to look in front of a county court judge trying to enforce a bill that they have already acknowledged is wrong!! On that call, the advisor explained that the query had been ended and the bill was not recalculated............as it was 100% right! She said that the advisor back in May did not understand the gas sculpting issue, and that the 4752 per annum rule resets to 0 every time the unit cost of the gas changes! All this for nothing! I am so angry. I wasn't disputing paying the bill if it had been right, so, am I being told a load of hogwash, or is it correct that i was in fact grossly misadvised back in may? sorry to go on and on but my head is battered over this!!

EDIT: the data I posted back in May was this, and people were very helpful, so I am hoping this may help someone to work this out!!

16/03/07 - 29/04/07

703kwh - 4.412p per kwh
604 kwh - 2.492p

29/04/07 - 30/09/07

1807kwh - 4.412p (all at same rate they said)

30/09/07 - 04/01/08

2259kwh- 4.412p
914kwh - 1.195p

04/01/08 - 15/01/08

313kwh - 6.127p
173kwh - 1.990p

Endora_2

Only found this thread as I had left something on the forums about the problems I've been having with USwitch.com and npower. Was amazed to read about this so dug out all my bills, worked out the charges since 22nd March 2007 up to 5th June 2008 and it comes to 6760kWh so I presume I too have been overcharged? It's funny though as couldn't find (on last two bills) anything for the dates 6th March to 3rd April 2008. A previous bill had 4th Jan to 6th March 08 then the following bill just had 3rd April to 5th June 08. Rang up npower to ask why and was told it was to do with the fact that I had phoned through a meter reading, couldn't see relevance of that though as the reading for those missed dates was already missing off the statement/bill even before I had rung the meter reading through! Anyway they are going to send me a statement for the missing dates which should get to me in the next 3 days. Will wait until that comes through so I can work out total kWh charges for the year, if it's still over then will ring them about it.

epsilondraconis

I've calculated that I've been overcharged on the tier 1 by 413 units. These dates are 30-4-07 to 28-4-08 all confirmed readings (I'm happy to let them off the 2 days).

As my switch is hopefully going through at the moment and I am in credit with them on the electricity of £100 and in debit on the gas of £7, I am hoping it will all go through okay. I will obviously be following the advice within this thread regarding switching away from npower and ensuring they don't delay etc. I'll submit my claim to them once I have switched. I don't see why it should make a difference whether I am a current customer or not, the fact is, they still overcharged me.

Thanks again for the great thread. I'll be reading it all in the next couple of weeks to ensure I am fully appraised in preparation for my complaint.

harlina

I complained my bill off electricity was too high £277 in a 2 bed house, So they sent man out to check my meter then told i was £523 in credit so i asked for £400 of it bk, Then my nxt bill was £678!!! Told me i was never due bk the money has the electric man had been reading my meter wrong, And asked if i had spent the money i asked for i said yes i thought it was mine has u said i was in credit. Now i have put a complaint in so see what happens but i have had to pay this bill discrace!

DirectDebacle

spinningsheep wrote: »

EDIT: the data I posted back in May was this, and people were very helpful, so I am hoping this may help someone to work this out!!

Those dates (less than a year) total 5082. So you have been overcharged. For the full amount choose a year either 16/3/07-15/3/08 or 1/4/07-31/3/08. I would go for the latter period.

Yes, you have been given a load of hogwash.

The reality is that this matter has been an issue since January this year at least. npower are well aware of it, Energywatch are aware of it, Ofgem are aware of it and customers are aware of it. It has been mentioned on television and in the national press. Complaints of this nature will no longer be a surprise to npower and they will have briefed customer services on how to deal with them.

npower have taken the attitude that they have done nothing wrong. Their customer services are probably under instruction to deny any overcharging and if that doesn't work to tell you anything they think will appease you. Certainly they don't mean what they say, say what they mean or do what they say they are going to do. Unless you can accurately make a record of your conversations with them, then they will deny anything that they may have said which could be construed to be to your advantage. They will employ any delaying tactics they can.

The best thing to do is to phone them and tell them you are making a complaint about overcharging. Give them the dates you were overcharged. Ask for a complaint No. Don't discuss the details with them as it is a waste of time. Get the complaint no. and then phone the Higher Level Complaints Team on 0800 3161492. Tell them you want a refund. Tell them if you do not receive a refund within fourteen days then you will take them to court. Follow this up in writing to:

Npower
Eighth Avenue
Team Valley
Gateshead
Tyne and Wear NE11 0SX.

Just contacting the general customer services will have you chasing your tail for months.

Send your letter recorded delivery.

This is your starting point. From there, depending on what response, if any, you receive will dictate your next move. This company will not refund you a penny unless they feel backed into a corner. Show them you mean business and that you will not be fobbed off with their pitiful excuses. Giving them a sense of your determination should produce a result. It seems to have worked for others judging by some recent posts.

If you are in dispute with npower over a bill and are contacted by a debt recovery company, then inform the company that the matter is in dispute. Until the dispute is resolved they are not allowed to press you for payment. Continuing to do so is deemed as harassment. npower as the instructing client are deemed equally responsible in this. There are good threads on here on how to deal with debt collection companies. Have a read.

epsilondraconis

DirectDebacle, thanks for explaining the best approach we should take when contacting them. Your posts are very very useful.