NPower gas 'sculpting'

ScoobieGirl

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Hummingbirds can fly backwards. They can also fly forwards, downwards, upwards, from side to side and even hover. In fact their mastery of flight is almost equal to npowers' masterly manipulation of mathematics and time.

Dammit! If only I'd been quick enough to think of that on the phone - I would have loved to hear him come back on that one!

DirectDebacle

Gone quiet on here. Not sure if that's good or bad. Was wondering if anyone had enquired of npower if they had notified any customers in writing yet of the changes thay made to their terms and conditions. Also as to why the changes were made on 2/08 but their website didn't show the update until the end of June.

BTW ScoobieGirl, hummingbirds can also fly upside down. I think the only thing they can't do is land lol. Unlike npower who will guarantee to land you with a bill far bigger than a hummingbirds'.

colonelhall

I've just received a cheque for thirty pounds, along with a long letter. Extraxts:
"At the same time we reduced the price of our follo-on units by 23% ( and increased our direct debit dual fuel discount from £60.00 to £80.00). So the increase in units at the primary block rate needs to be balanced against the benefit of our follow on unit price decreases and where appropriate an increased discount."

"No reimbursement is being viewed as the calculations made by the company are within their commercial remit."

"As the method of calculation is within the company's discretion, Ofgem does not need to be informed."

"However I recognise the delays that you have experienced and very much hope that I can restore npower's reputation with you..........On a goodwill basis....." etc etc.

They are wearing me down! Should I cash the cheque?

SwanJon

If there is nothing in the letter suggesting that cashing the cheque is acceptance of their stand I'd cash it.
I can see a logic with their thinking (not that I agree with it), but only if you were a customer before they turned it off. If you signed up afterward, your contract was at the published prices and discounts and so the argument has even less legs (can you have negative legs?).

Did they actually reduce the price of the follow on units or just not increase them as much?

DirectDebacle

colonelhall wrote: »

"No reimbursement is being viewed as the calculations made by the company are within their commercial remit."

"As the method of calculation is within the company's discretion, Ofgem does not need to be informed."

"However I recognise the delays that you have experienced and very much hope that I can restore npower's reputation with you..........On a goodwill basis....." etc etc.

They are wearing me down! Should I cash the cheque?

A tricky one for you colonelhall. The ball is in your court. Not having full sight of their letter it seems they are saying take £30.00 as a token of your inconvenience and let that be the end of it.

No acknowledgement of wrongdoing at all. In fact a claim that they were perfectly entitled to overcharge you.

Of course they don't want Ofgem to be informed. Trouble is Ofgem have been and are still, I suppose, investigating this matter.

So as a matter of goodwill and to show how much they value you as a loyal customer they are offering you a whole £30.00 for six months of frustration trying to get an answer from them. Does that cover your time, trouble and the amount they overcharged you.

You could take the money, change supplier and move on. I wouldn't blame you for taking that option and neither should anyone else. You have been (and still are) a stalwart on here and one of the very first to bring it to the attention of others.

You could return the cheque with an accompanying letter asking them to explain under what commercial remit they are allowed to breach their terms and conditions.

Ask them if Ofgem does not need to be informed why are they currently under investigation.

Finally tell them that you consider the offer of £30.00 as totally inadequate for the abysmal service you have received from them which has caused you to waste far more in time and money than should have been necessary. Also you still require to be re-imbursed the amount you have been overcharged.

Should you pay the cheque in? Only you have the answer to that one colonel. There is no right or wrong. Just what you think is best for you.

DirectDebacle

1. Take the start date for the Primary Block year of 4572kWh per annum as 1st April each year. Unless npower have given you a date other than this.

2. Do not accept the notion of a ‘tariff year’ or a ‘Cycle’ as having any relevance. It is not mentioned or defined in their terms and conditions. At the time there was only the term ‘year’ or ‘per annum’ used in relation to the Primary Block units.

3. Similarly do not accept ‘we lowered the Follow-On rate (tier 2) price to compensate’. This is irrelevant and a red –herring. The Primary Block of 4572kWh has never been dependant on or linked to the price of the Follow-On units. Your contract is for up to the first 4572kWh per annum to be charged at the higher (Primary Block rate). Nowhere in the contract does it say that the amount of Primary Block units is variable according to the price of the Follow-On units.

4. If you joined npower on or before 1/09/2007 and they have charged at their published rates then you have been charged more than 4572kWh.

1st September 2007 to 31st July 2008 you should have been charged (according to their figures) 4971kWh for that year. If you joined earlier the more you have been overcharged over a year.

5. Keep writing to them (recorded delivery) requesting that you be refunded. Do not accept token ‘goodwill’ payments. Insist you be reimbursed exactly what you were overcharged plus an additional amount for your time and trouble.

6. If you get no response or unsatisfactory explanations copy the letters to the CEO at their Swindon H.Q. Do not be fobbed off or succumb to delaying tactics. That is what they are banking on. Persevere.

7. Finally if all forms of a reasonable solution (i.e. full refund) fail, take them to court. Keep an eye out for the Ofgem conclusion. Hopefully they will be reporting soon.

kjsmith7

I was with nPower for my gas until I switched to BG for most of the period in question; I had no idea anything like that was happening. I've just glanced over a couple of my bills (can't find all of them so I'm going to ring them up and request copies) and I've noticed that I have also been overcharged, but as I said I'm missing 2 of them.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

notbritishgas

DirectDebacle wrote: »

1. Take the start date for the Primary Block year of 4572kWh per annum as 1st April each year. Unless npower have given you a date other than this.

2. Do not accept the notion of a ‘tariff year’ or a ‘Cycle’ as having any relevance. It is not mentioned or defined in their terms and conditions. At the time there was only the term ‘year’ or ‘per annum’ used in relation to the Primary Block units.

3. Similarly do not accept ‘we lowered the Follow-On rate (tier 2) price to compensate’. This is irrelevant and a red –herring. The Primary Block of 4572kWh has never been dependant on or linked to the price of the Follow-On units. Your contract is for up to the first 4572kWh per annum to be charged at the higher (Primary Block rate). Nowhere in the contract does it say that the amount of Primary Block units is variable according to the price of the Follow-On units.

4. If you joined npower on or before 1/09/2007 and they have charged at their published rates then you have been charged more than 4572kWh.

1st September 2007 to 31st July 2008 you should have been charged (according to their figures) 4971kWh for that year. If you joined earlier the more you have been overcharged over a year.

5. Keep writing to them (recorded delivery) requesting that you be refunded. Do not accept token ‘goodwill’ payments. Insist you be reimbursed exactly what you were overcharged plus an additional amount for your time and trouble.

6. If you get no response or unsatisfactory explanations copy the letters to the CEO at their Swindon H.Q. Do not be fobbed off or succumb to delaying tactics. That is what they are banking on. Persevere.

7. Finally if all forms of a reasonable solution (i.e. full refund) fail, take them to court. Keep an eye out for the Ofgem conclusion. Hopefully they will be reporting soon.

DD, how is your court case going, or are you not allowed to say?

DirectDebacle

notbritishgas wrote: »

DD, how is your court case going, or are you not allowed to say?

I have a date of hearing which is a few weeks away. I am limited as to what I can post. However, one way or another, most of the arguments against npowers stance have been stated on this thread. What a good thread this is and so useful. Thank you.

c0113tt3

Finally a break through.

Of course with no admission of liability, Npower executive complaints have been informed to clear the backlog of complaints, although this maybe a smoke screen as a small claims court case is due within the next week or 2 and they may just be in damage control mode in expectance of losing the case and would be far cheaper for them to just settle the complaints.

Anyway, they offered myself £170, and my father in law £100 to settle the complaints with no admission of liability, to which we accepted and have received the cheques. The amounts included calculations and goodwill gesture for a deadlock complaint that has spanned many months. Of course they were aware that I was awaiting OFGEM / ENERGYWATCH response or successful court case (which ever was the quicker) to reclaim the money I considered to be over charged that had been proven to them.

The complaints we made were the same as this forum thread, ie over charge on tier 1 during the suspended gas sculpt during end of April 07 to end of October 2007, in which the lowered tier 2 did not compensate in our circumstances. The other complaints were that we are contracted to 4572 kwh tier 1 per year, and not tariff year (which is now referred as cycle) which can mean paying more that the 4572 kwh tier 1 per real year, in which is a breach of contract, and we had over paid on that too in our circumstances. I also raised the point that this could be anti-competative with other suppliers, as comparison sites compare the contracted 4572, to which npower may charge more than that in a real year, which would give them an unfair advantage.


Anyway good luck everyone (especially DD), I consider my complaints closed now.