NPower gas 'sculpting'

judy2357

In response to Cardew, I was sceptical too!! So have rung NP yet again and spoke to a lady called Angela ..... (perhaps I shouldnt quote name) who assured me the two cheques totalling £68 were definitely not a refund and that they were a credit. She said we were in credit £177 Elec and £44.84 gas, bills due 6th Aug and 7 Nov respectively but this money had not come out of our account. So I dont know what more I can do other than to scrutinise my next bills when received and if at that point I have any doubts I shall be on the phone yet again to them. Without reading all of this thread can I just ask, if any of you have actually tried for an overcharging credit yourselves??

prn6243

I complained that I was being charged for more than the 4572 units of gas at the higher rate.I was told the usual rubbish about the count of units reverting to zero if prices change and was told that I could be charged for more that 4572 units in a year. After 15 minutes trying to point out that the tariff stated that a maximum of 4572 would be charged, I was told that I would be sent the information on how the "sculpting" method worked.
At 1st January 2007 a fixed percentage of the 4572 units were charged each month so obviously 4572 units only would be charged in a year.
However, at 1st May 2007 they "moved the goalposts" charging 8.33% of the 4572 each month.
At 1st Novemer 2007 they "moved the goalposts" again reverting to a fixed percentage basis each month but with much higher percentages in the winter months than at 1st January 2007.
Yesterday I was told that the "sculpted" method in use at 1st November 2007 is still being used and would not alter.If we can believe this, it will mean that from now on customers will only be charged the 4572 units at the highe rate in a year.
However, it is obvious that my changing the calculation criteria twice during 2007 means that all customers using more than 4572 units per year have been overcharged. I calculate that someone being billed from 1st January 2007 to 31st December 2007 would have been billed for 6309 units at the higher rate and has therefore been overcharged by £55 vat today's prices.
Npower must not be allowed to "get-away" with this blatant cheating but I am not convinced that Ofgem & Energywatch will manage to get a refund for all customers.This situation needs as much publicity as possible to perhaps persuade Npower to act.. Does anyone know if "Working Lunch" on BBC2 has covered the matter?
If anyone would like the "sculpting" information I was sent, please email me at [EMAIL="peter_r_nor@ntlworld.com"]peter_r_nor@ntlworld.com[/EMAIL] and I will forward it.

DirectDebacle

Judy they are just trying to confuse the issue. For your gas (previous posts refer) from June 08 to 6/04/09 is 10 payments @£29=£290. Annual estimated usage 7/04/08-6/04/09 = £348. You are in credit £44.84. So £290+£44.84=£334.84. In other words your gas account is bang on for the year (notwithstanding price changes). You really shouldn't be having this credit refunded. Similarly you need to work out how your electricity account stands.

Under no circumstances allow them to join up the overcharging issue with the credit status of your account. They must be kept entirely separate. Any overcharging repayment has to be paid to you entirely separately from your account with them. If they manage to combine them in anyway I can see this leading to all sorts of billing problems with them in the future.

Have you worked out as best you can what the overcharge is in the year from 7/04/07-6/04/08. You need to know this before anymore contact with them.

DirectDebacle

prn6243 welcome to MSE and this thread. Thank you for your post and much of what you say has been mentioned in one form or another. There is some media coverage on this subject, mostly in the press. Watchdog have done a couple of pieces on npower. Latest item was a scathing report by The Times on Saturday 24th May in the Money Section. Fact is this has been rumbling on since January. Almost 6 months now and still no sign of npower admitting fault or of refunds. I share your views re Ofgem and Energywatch. I have started proceedings against npower and it is a surprisingly easy and painless experience so far. I keep recommending others to do the same. So far it has taken just over a week from sending the papers to the court to them issuing npower with a summons. Three weeks ago Energywatch wrote to npower asking for an explanation of my charges. So far they have not received a reply and they will give them another week to reply before writing to them again. Energywatch have no power to obtain a refund. I rest my case.

Cardew

DD
I hope you are going to claims expenses as well as the money owed(make it a lot of expenses!!)

The big danger is of course that they will try to buy you off with a 'without prejudice' settlement. A formal judgement against them will set the precedent.

Have you asked any third party to attend court with you?(why not Energywatch? BBC? Which? Newspapers?)

DirectDebacle

I have included expenses and I am going it alone. By 'sculpting' standards this is a large claim, possibly around 5 times more than an average sculpt. Bear in mind I have been overcharged since 2003. I am going for the jugular but don't feel inclined to reveal my tactics or methods on here at the moment. In fact I will have to be careful from now on as it may be 'sub- judice'. Thank you for your support and advice, I am sure you understand.

I see it as a win win situation. If they settle my claim in full out of court then mission accomplished. If they fight it and lose then mission accomplished. If I lose then c'est la vie and I move on. Worst place is where we all are now, nothing happening fast.

I also think that if their HQ in Swindon were getting a steady stream of summonses, say a few dozen or more for the next few weeks, that might help them alter their stance.

Anne3333

As NPower are a German owned company, you may find these useful in court DirectDebacle!

Jahr - Year

Das Formen - Sculpting

Diebstahl - Theft

Lassen Sie hören Sie nie unserer Unfairen Fristen im Verbraucher Schließen Regulierungen? - Have you never heard of our Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations?

Tun Sie Sie denken, dass wir alle Becher hier in England sind! - Do you think we are all mugs here in England!

DirectDebacle

'Quite incredible that not only can their computers not calculate what you owe but their staff cant either. Heres waiting to see if the cheques actually arrive, got to wait another 10 days now.'

Judy be very careful that you know exactly what any cheques you receive from npower are for. You need to be very precise with them. The reason is that as soon as you pay a cheque in you will have entered into a contract binding you to acceptance of that payment. If they send you a cheque for £20.00 but don't tell you what it is for and you claim £50 or whatever for overcharging or say Ofgem order them to re-imburse every customer say £40 npower will tell you that you were already compensated as they sent you £20.00 and you accepted this because you encashed the cheque. So before you accept any cheque or credit to your account you need in writing from them the reason this is being paid to you.By accepting payment you enter into a contract. Be sure what the contract is before accepting. You could lose out. This applies to all of us.

Anne3333

I am also considering following DirectDebacle's footsteps by going to court, however I think I am right in saying that outcomes decided in Small Claims Courts by District Judges, do not in fact set a precedent. Only cases decided in the High Court set a precedent for lower courts to follow. Anyone know if this is correct?

DirectDebacle

I am sure you are correct Anne. This is what the Banks/OFT was all about. The decision went against the Banks and now they are appealing it. To add to my previous post this is what is posted on the Abbey website re compensation:

I have already accepted an offer from you. Will my claim be revisited?

'If you have accepted a 'full and final settlement', we believe it unlikely you would be awarded a further sum even if the test case indicates a potentially larger amount. However, this does not prevent you from asking for repayment of any new charges incurred if the courts find they are unlawful.'

We are with the sculpting issue at the very beginning of where the reclaiming Bank charges started. Lots of individuals fighting personal claims in the county court. Each would be decided on its merits. Most of the claims against the Banks were settled out of court. Because it started to cost them millions of pounds they eventually got together to fight it in the High Court. As soon as this procedure started all claims were put on hold. npower may well do the same if the 'sculpting' really starts to cost them. One win or a thoudand wins in a county court would not set a legal precedent. It would take very expensive litigation for this to happen and would be conducted by Ofgem/Energywatch. Individual customers would not be involved except maybe as a witness. Just press on with your County court claim, cost you around £35.00 which you get back if you win and costs no more if you lose. Usually you don't have to pay the other sides costs.