Council Tax - Court Summons

BenTheBoy

CIS wrote: »

Previous years will not affect the recovery action taken on this year.

The council will almost certainly have issued a reminder (its not something they forget to do) and will have proof of postage - as far as service is concerned, proof of postage is proof of receipt.

Nowhere in the paperwork I received today does it claim a reminder was sent. They may well have evidence they sent something, I can't say. But if so, how can I possibly prove I didn't receive it? I honestly didn't. If I had received it I would have paid immediately. I don't like owing money. There would be no logic to me ignoring a reminder. Can they completely discount even the possibility that I didn't receive it or will they just assume I'm being dishonest when I say that I didn't? This all seems very unfair!

CIS

Nowhere in the paperwork I received today does it claim a reminder was sent

A Summons doesn't need to state it has been issued after a reminder or give any details regarding any previous bills, reminders etc. The summons can only be issued after at least 1 reminder.

If I had received it I would have paid immediately. I don't like owing money. There would be no logic to me ignoring a reminder. Can they completely discount even the possibility that I didn't receive it or will they just assume I'm being dishonest when I say that I didn't? This all seems very unfair!

The problem is that everyone claims not to have received reminders - its extremely difficult to work out those who are telling the truth and those who aren't. The legislation works on the basis that on the whole very few letters are aren't received by a person and in any case it is up to the payer to ensure that they make payment as billed - (and by your own admission you were late paying).

You can ask the local authority to withdraw the summons but it is at their discretion.

WhiteHorse

CIS wrote: »

As long as they have acted in line with the Council Tax (administration and enforcement) regulations 1992 then they have acted reasonably in the eyes of the court.

Not necessarily. Any aspect of their behaviour may be unreasonable and might be taken into account.

WhiteHorse

CIS wrote: »

The problem is that everyone claims not to have received reminders - its extremely difficult to work out those who are telling the truth and those who aren't.

Undoubtedly true.

However, we seem to be skipping over the possibility that the Council never did send out a reminder.

CIS

However, we seem to be skipping over the possibility that the Council never did send out a reminder.

The systems wont allow a Summons to be issued without Reminders being produced, they are hard coded to ensure the summons cannot go without a reminder, as there is nothing in legislation to allow this to happen. I pointed out in post 61 that the reminder would have been issued with the council having proof of postage. If the OP wishes to dispute it then they would need to speak to the council.

BenTheBoy

Hello, thought I would update you. I rang the council yesterday morning and got a council officer who adopted a fairly non-commital stance. It sounded like she didn't really have authority to decide anything, just inform me of council procedures. As CIS predicted, the council claims to have a record I was sent a reminder (on July 16th). All I know is I didn't receive it.


Why does it seem so inconceivable to people that a letter can be sent, but not received? For example, it's not been at all uncommon for me to receive mail at my address clearly addressed to someone else at a different address. This has included mail from financial institutions, presumably containing confidential financial information. I once even received two packages of pedometers (counts the no. of steps a person takes), both clearly addressed and intended for someone else. When I get such mail I just mark it "wrongly delivered" and put it in a post box.


When I queried the amount of the summons cost, she then disclosed that she herself lives in a neighbouring Authority and a few years ago forgot to pay and was summonsed for £30-odd. I pointed out the contrast to me being summonsed for £125. Then she told me my own Authority also used to have a similar summons cost at that time but has increased it in stages, the last time in May this year, from £80-odd to £125. When I asked how she could possibly justify an increase in this cost over a few years of circa. 400% she replied that maybe the Authority wants to "push a point". That, to me seems a punitive attitude.


She implied that if I downloaded a direct debit mandate and filled it in, the balance would be taken in instalments, though she admitted a lot of people don't like direct debit. I'm a bit wary of doing this and would need to have that in writing that merely completing a mandate would suffice. Or I would have to pay it all now. However the upshot was that the extra £125 would be added, whichever way I paid. Somehow, I got the impression that that was really what this was all about, the extra £125. Are councils allowed to charge whatever they like for issuing a summons? Why such variation in costs between councils, surely it should cost roughly the same wherever you live, after all how much does it cost to issue a summons? And why the extraordinary increase in the cost?


I think I'll probably have to end up paying the extra £125 but I do feel I want to make a written complaint, because my treatment seems unfair and harsh. I would mention 2 grounds, 1) I honestly didn't receive the reminder and, 2) £125 is unreasonable for an honest mistake. Would I be wasting my time? If not, how would I go about it, just write a letter or do Councils have formal complaints procedures?

CIS

You can challenge the costs but the council will normally run it past the local magistrates court before they introduce the costs to ensure they have their agreement.

If she was charged £30 then most likely the council operate a split costs - £30.00 for the summons and then a further fee if and when the Liability Order is granted.

1) I honestly didn't receive the reminder

You have to look at economies of scale and collection of council tax - if the local authority had to guarantee proof of delivery of , not uncommon, 50,000 start of year bills,10,000 in year bills, 15,000 reminders and 12,000 Summons each year you can understand why bulk postage is done. The sheer costs of guaranteed delivery would put council tax bills through the roof as well as being unfeasable in terms of manpower. If it was done this way council tax would never be collected.

Freddie_Snowbits

Ben, why not use a standing order that pays every quarter?

John_Pierpoint

The basic law of the land says that when you mail a contract (a cheque is a bill of exchange promise to pay) it is deemed to have been received on the day you posted it. (Very convenient to establishing Victorian commerce, hence the importance of the post mark; but a bit of a joke with some of the clowns currently working for the Royal Mail) HOWEVER you can write your own terms and conditions and the STRONG (ie the council tax man etc.) always tend to bully the WEAK.

I had a similar problem, but in my case I HAD paid the council by bank giro, but the council took the attitude that their terms and conditions said they decided when a payment was received. I had to get as far as "OK see you in court and here is my proof of evidence"; before the council legal department would back off. [In reality the accounts department had "lost" my payment and lost their grip on their bank reconciliation] What a pantomime over a 35 quid debt and 75 quid court costs.

However I would say you are guilty of failing to meet the terms and conditions that have been imposed on you; there are some debts you HAVE to pay in full on time.

samdd

If you suspect your council has issued you Council Tax Summons, then you should remind them that the Ministry Of Justic (MOJ) has stated that; "Council tax or non-domestic rates must be authorised by a Justice of the Peace or Legal Adviser with delegated powers from a Justices’ Clerk.

Fees are chargeable and the decision of the court at the hearing must be recorded in a court register".

Many councils issue summonses, en-mass, so to avoid paying the necessary court fee's.Read this link for full info. http://www.justice.gov.uk/news/announcement221009a.htm

Im in court on the 2nd Sept and will be raising this issue with the Magistrate as my council issue's the summons.