Council Tax - Court Summons

lgam

malenka-81 wrote: »

Hi There

I have had the same problem and you CAN get the Council to back down on certain charges.
I sent email after email requesting all information they had on the account, then contested the court charges/baliffs fees/administration fees stating that these were unfair and unreasonable.

I was also 30 weeks pregnant so used that as a stress point to them, so i recommend you play the hardship card with them, emphasise on how you did not intentionally avoid any debt and that you feel like you are being dealt with unfairly and that it is causing you lots of stress etc etc.

The emails will bounce backwards and forwards, they will say tough luck to start with, but dont give up as after approximately 3 months the Council i was dealing with cancelled all administration charges, court costs and baliff letter fees and helped me arrange a suitable repayment plan with them.

I have dealt with councils before for various issues, and have had very good advice from Citizens Advice Bureauxs and google on the law, my rights etc. It is tough fighting Councils, they are greedy and wont back down easy.

Become a pain in thier backsides, throw lots of data protection and law acts at them and use the word 'mal administration' alot, they dont like it as it is all Councils top reason for complaints.

Always email, never ring as at least then you have correspondance should a Bailiff etc turn up on the door and this buys you time and shows Courts that you are trying to resolve it amicably and it just makes the Councils look un helpful.

I hope this helps......

Hiya, what did u say to them on the emails? I missed 1 months payment just last month because like you I am also pregnant and I had the worst morning sickness- I am now 15 weeks pregnant- but I spent 2 and a half months so ill unable to move or do anything without being violently sick and feeling really ill. So it was a genuine mistake and because we missed one months payment we got that horrible letter about the summons. I was sooo stressed about it yesterday after I phoned her up because I spoke to someone not particularly nice!!! and I was so upset and stressed after that, I said to my husband for him to ring. Think it will be ok because the person he spoke to just said to pay. but I am also worried that cos I was so stressed that I am now worried about my baby.
Just wondering what you said on the emails.

Thanks

Buzby

They do what they can to ensure they get paid - as this is only fair on the other Council Tax payers who DO pay on time.

However, what is often forgotten is that after 2 late payments, the right to pay in instalments is waived and payment in full of the outstanding amount is required, otherwise the Statutory Addition is applied and they are not interested in stories of being out of sorts. It is always best to prioritise them above all other creidtors, as they have the greatest clout!

kingharryvi

This just happened to me. Here is my experience and how I resolved it!

- April - I received a notice saying my payment was overdue, so I paid it
- May - I received a notice saying my payment was overdue, so I paid it
- June - I received nothing but on 16th thought "oops, I've forgotten to pay it" so paid it
- July - paid it on time, then set up standing order so I wouldn't miss any more

- Later in July I receive my Summons. As I had made 3 late payments I could no longer pay in installments, and apparently I had been sent a notice for full payment on 8th June.

So here's the steps I took

1. Phone council and explain that I didn't get that final notice. They say "tough - we only have to show we sent it to you." I point out that when I received the Summons I was paid up to date (received late in July, paid July installment early in July) they say "tough, you were not up to date, because in June you received a final notice. Seeing that it's going nowhere I leave it.

2. Phone council again, talk to someone else who tells me the same thing with my protests.

3. Write to the council explaining my case. I receive a letter back that says "tough, you missed payments on three occasions, then ignored the final notice. You say you didn't get the final notice, but we only have to show we sent it." I reply that if I had got a notice saying that I could no longer pay installments and had to pay the full amount, why would I then pay an installment immediately after? They said that is doesn't make a difference.

4. Contact council tax ombudsman pointing out:
- I was late on 3 payments but
- I was up to date when I got the summons
- The fact I paid an installment straight after I supposedly received a letter telling me I could no longer pay in installments shows that I didn't receive the letter

They say to me: "tough, you haven't got a leg to stand on. Either get legal representation or defend yourself in court."

So at this point I accepted that I was going to have to take it on the chin. The only thing was that I had set up standing orders in July because I kept missing the payment! So I had paid some for July and August so:

5. I phoned the council to find out exactly what I owed, this time without defending myself too much. I took a different attitude, was polite, slightly flattering, and kept admitting that I had made late payments and saying I could see things from their point of view.

Then the council person said they would remove the summons and let me pay in installments if I set up a direct debit.

And that was it. The other two council people and the ombudsman had all said I would have to pay the summons and the complete costs, but this other operator sorted it all out for me.

If it was a different operator I might not have been successful.

So my advice:

1. Persist if you have acted in good faith and have some payments to back it up
2. Be nice and flatter where possible
3. Try talking to as many different operators at the council as possible
4. Persist!!

Hope that helps someone, and it goes to show that it's not all about policy, it's about people too!

00ec25

kingharryvi wrote: »

So my advice:

1. Persist if you have acted in good faith and have some payments to back it up
2. Be nice and flatter where possible
3. Try talking to as many different operators at the council as possible
4. Persist!!

Hope that helps someone, and it goes to show that it's not all about policy, it's about people too!

my advice

set a up a direct debit in the first place then you will NEVER get a summons for being late

Buzby

Afraid I agree - I know what they can do, so I pay on time to avoid the consequences. Sure, personal attitude can assist in negotiations - it usually always does. Paying on time remains the taxpayers responsibility - and always will.

Scrudge

I also fell victim of local jobsworths thugs. I have never received Final Notic like many others.

The costs of 70 pounds are clearly excessive.

Even if the thugs have a law in thir favour - when they claim that proof of sending is sufficient and th proof of sending is their word for it there is still:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/34/made

(5) If, after a summons has been issued in accordance with paragraph (2) but before the application is heard, there is paid or tendered to the authority an amount equal to the aggregate of—
(a)the sum specified in the summons as the sum outstanding or so much of it as remains outstanding (as the case may be); and
(b)a sum of an amount equal to the costs reasonably incurred by the authority in connection with the application up to the time of the payment or tender,

So the costs have to be reasonable and incurred in connction with the application up to the oint the offer to pay is made. So clearly the costs have to be actual costs incurred today and only the portion of the actual costs that is incurred reasonably and in reasonable amount.

So what costs have they incurred? Just one letter - sending out of summons! Can't see that costing themmore then 5 pounds - given that it is all standardised and automated!

I thnk it would be great if members started writing Fredom of Information requests to their councils asking to obtain detailed breakdown of all the work they do on such applications down to numbr of minutes of members of staf, pay scals of staff involved, all the cost allocation. If there is any element of profit in this for th council then t is illegal! If there is any element of wastefullness or inefficiency - then againt this is not legal!

Also this clearly points out that the "advice" being dished out by the tax collector rsident on this thread in that the extra costs are always payable in full as stated in the warrant except through generosity of the council can not be correct. The liability is at most for the actual rasonably incurred costs up to the timeof the offer to pay. The logic dictates these have to be smaller if the offer to pay is made on receipt of summons rathe then just before court attendance or even in court.

Scrudge

And .. it is easy to see that the costs council attach to issuing summons are clearly unreasonable.

Take parking tickets. If you are cought in P&D you get fined 25 pounds and they make a profit on that. To get those 25 pounds they have underdogs roaming th streets, armd with quite expensive technology to take pictures / GPS position recoed brief statements which all feeds to their computer and then even a secure internet site where you can see pictures of your car taken by the underdog. Out of those 25 pounds they also have to cover the costs of internal appeals (as the charge remains 25 pounds if you appeal internally) and at those appeals someone generally has to write a customised letter to you - and yet they make money out of it! It is not just costs and they admit it....

On one occasion person I know disputed a speeding charge, The case involved two court appearances, the first trivial the scond one was a full day hearing in front of three magistratesm a clerk, an usher, prosecuting barrister, two policescumbags attending giving evidence a full use of alrge court room for one day. And yet costs were 250 pounds.

Clearly anything more then 5-10 pounds for issuing summons is not costs - it is profit which is not allowed. (Alternatively it is grossincompetency or wastefullness which is also not allowed!)

alebru

Hi,
I moved in in August (alone) but my agency forgot to tell the Borough that I was entitled to pay 25% less, being alone. When I received my first bill, I called them and they agreed to send me a request-form I would have to fill in. I never received this form, but I received a couple of weeks after a summon for council tax, where they ask me to pay for the period from August to the 31st of March(!) and I only owe them 3 months (being now November...!!!). Why should I pay in advance? Is there any possibility to avoid this payment? I am prepared to pay for the 3 months, I was just waiting for the form to come. Can anybody help me?
Thank you!!!

CIS

Why should I pay in advance?

By the time a summons is issued the right to pay by instalments has already been lost.

When I received my first bill, I called them and they agreed to send me a request-form I would have to fill in.

Payment is due as per the last demand notice issued until you are issued with a revised one.

Is there any possibility to avoid this payment?

Only if the council are willing to cease action in respect of the court summons.

John_Pierpoint

alebru wrote: »

Hi,
I moved in in August (alone) but my agency forgot to tell the Borough that I was entitled to pay 25% less, being alone. When I received my first bill, I called them and they agreed to send me a request-form I would have to fill in. I never received this form, but I received a couple of weeks after a summon for council tax, where they ask me to pay for the period from August to the 31st of March(!) and I only owe them 3 months (being now November...!!!). Why should I pay in advance? Is there any possibility to avoid this payment? I am prepared to pay for the 3 months, I was just waiting for the form to come. Can anybody help me?
Thank you!!!

Is this the first time you have ever had to pay council tax for your own household ?

You are not paying in advance, as a concession to you, as head of a household, you are allowed to make monthly payments spread over the year.

Every head of a household has to make arrangements for paying it - it is about as optional as breathing (or it should be, to be fair on the rest of us, who pay on time).