Council Tax - Court Summons

lukeedwardsuk

Went to the offices on Monday morning. I explained the situation and they said if I paid the outstanding amount of £30, no further action would be taken. This outcome may have happened due to the person I spoke to was my friends mother...

CIS

This outcome may have happened due to the person I spoke to was my friends mother...

A really professional way to act...

redpola

I'd value an opinion on this rather weird situation, in which I feel I have dutifully paid all my council taxes in full using the schedule on the bills, yet I am being summoned to court for a paltry £23 plus an annoying £45 "summons charge".

Briefly, my father passed away and ultimately I moved into his house. We did all the usual probate things and I received my first CT bill on 4th May this year.

I made one payment for the first two months (I was a few days late for the first payment as I was abroad, so thought I'd roll the next one in) and then got another bill. I assumed it was an error on their part, but paid the next two monthly payments as one payment as well, even though the two bills overlapped (1st bill 20th May and 20th June payments, 2nd bill 20th June, 20th July payments). So I paid for four monthly payments over three months!

After making the second payment, I received a "Reminder notice" for a similar amount to that I'd just paid, along with the "If you have paid in the last 7 days ignore this" and consequently ignored it.

Then, a few days ago I received the summons mentioned above, seemingly for a weird amount, £23.

After working on this for almost the whole of today I think I've worked out that this is what must have happened:

- £700 was owing from last year and payable immediately on 1st April. This was not made explicitly clear to me. I would have paid it immediately had I known.

- My first payment paid off about £350 of this when I thought it was paying this year's bill.

- I was then issued the second, revised, bill (3rd June) and my subsequent two-month payment paid off all but £23 of the £700 debt I didn't know about.

- I was issued with a "Reminder" for £350 just prior to the council receiving my second payment

- Coincidentally my second payment as per my schedule was about £327.

- Again this money went, without my knowledge, to pay off the £700.

- The outstanding part of this debt was then, still unknown to me, the £23 that I've now been summoned for.

I feel I have done everything I've been asked and paid all amounts I have known to be outstanding. I was never explicitly told the £700 was immediately payable nor that such an event could happen. I just took the bill and paid what it said when it said.

I have never been issued with a reminder or final notice for the amount I am being summoned for. If I had, I would have paid it immediately.

I've therefore also just discovered I am probably about to get late payment notices for all of this year's payments, which I thought I was paying and hadn't!

Now my question is this:

What is my recourse in this case? I would like to go to court and explain that I think the council have been delinquent in explaining to me exactly what I've owed, as I would have paid immediately, and then have punished me unnecessarily.

I think that the council have not informed me of the immediacy of the £700 debt, and in fact this is supported by it being July now when I get final reminder for it.

I think that the council have not given me the chance to settle the remainder of the outstanding debt after I (unknowingly!) made two payments towards it.

Or should I just pay the outstanding amount and summons charge even though it really annoys me that I've done nothing wrong and ended up paying £45 extra for nothing.

Thoughts would be very much appreciated.

CIS

To give a full response I would need to know the details of each bill you received (the amount shown and the instalments due) and when you made payment and how much.

I suspect I know what has happened but would need the above to confirm it.

redpola

Sure.

Bill 1:
4th May

Charge for period Nov10-Mar11 £719.28
Charge for period Apr11-Mar12 £1738.65
Transfers at date of issue £-359.64

Total £2098.29
THE PREVIOUS YEARS BALANCE IS NOT INCLUDED IN YOUR INSTALMENT PLAN
1x £194.65
8x £193

31 May I paid: £194.65 + £193 = £387.65

Bill 2:
3rd June

Charge for period Nov10-Mar11 £719.28
Charge for period Apr11-Mar12 £1738.65
Transfers at date of issue £-359.64
Payments Received as of date of issue £-387.65

Total £1710.64
THE REMAINING BALANCE FROM PREVIOUS YEARS IS DUE IMMEDIATELY £359.64
1x £168
7x £169

28 June I paid: £168 + £169 but added wrongly and paid only £336 instead of £337.

27 June (date, delivered a few days later) I had "Reminder Notice" saying "PAY WITHIN 7 DAYS £359.64".

18 July Summons "PERIOD NOV 2010 - MARCH 2011 £23.64 plus costs of £45"

And that's where we are.

Thanks so much for your response.

I have not been given a chance to pay £23.64 between my 28th June payment and before the summons was issued.

I appreciate that "THE PREVIOUS YEARS BALANCE IS NOT INCLUDED IN YOUR INSTALMENT PLAN" should have been interesting, but I assumed since there was no figure against it, it referred to 2009/2010 if anything and was just a boilerplate they put on every email which didn't refer to me. I genuinely didn't even read the second bill and just paid it, so never saw the more interesting "THE REMAINING BALANCE FROM PREVIOUS YEARS IS DUE IMMEDIATELY £359.64" which may have tipped me off that there was a problem.

Thanks,

Neil.

CIS

On 3 June 11 you had £1351.00 due for 11/12 and £359.64 for 10/11.

You paid 2 payments on 28 June (effectively July and August) - £337.

It looks like the payments initially went to 11/12 but for some reason £336.00 was later moved againt your arrears - (£359.64 - £336 = £23.64), this could have been an automatic system process or someone could have been trying to help you by reducing the summmonsed balance as much as possible.

The problem here is that your current years council tax will be showing as behind.

You need to speak with the council and ask why payments have been moved around when it was clear the payments were for your current council tax year.

I would also challenge them as to the wording of the demand notice in respect of last years charge.

redpola

Thanks. I'll see what they say. I sent an email detailing my experiences and expectation and will see what happens when they get back to me.

webbit

http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/Help-available-council-tax/story-12939228-detail/story.html


read this thread from N E L C, jusy shows how the councils make money from court, it is a shameful scam, sopported by Government. Generally it is the poorest of society who are targeted, by coun cils/courts and bailiffs

John_Pierpoint

redpola wrote: »

I'd value an opinion on this rather weird situation, in which I feel I have dutifully paid all my council taxes in full using the schedule on the bills, yet I am being summoned to court for a paltry £23 plus an annoying £45 "summons charge".

Briefly, my father passed away and ultimately I moved into his house. We did all the usual probate things and I received my first CT bill on 4th May this year.

I made one payment for the first two months (I was a few days late for the first payment as I was abroad, so thought I'd roll the next one in) and then got another bill. I assumed it was an error on their part, but paid the next two monthly payments as one payment as well, even though the two bills overlapped (1st bill 20th May and 20th June payments, 2nd bill 20th June, 20th July payments). So I paid for four monthly payments over three months!

After making the second payment, I received a "Reminder notice" for a similar amount to that I'd just paid, along with the "If you have paid in the last 7 days ignore this" and consequently ignored it.

Then, a few days ago I received the summons mentioned above, seemingly for a weird amount, £23.

After working on this for almost the whole of today I think I've worked out that this is what must have happened:

- £700 was owing from last year and payable immediately on 1st April. This was not made explicitly clear to me. I would have paid it immediately had I known.

- My first payment paid off about £350 of this when I thought it was paying this year's bill.

- I was then issued the second, revised, bill (3rd June) and my subsequent two-month payment paid off all but £23 of the £700 debt I didn't know about.

- I was issued with a "Reminder" for £350 just prior to the council receiving my second payment

- Coincidentally my second payment as per my schedule was about £327.

- Again this money went, without my knowledge, to pay off the £700.

- The outstanding part of this debt was then, still unknown to me, the £23 that I've now been summoned for.

I feel I have done everything I've been asked and paid all amounts I have known to be outstanding. I was never explicitly told the £700 was immediately payable nor that such an event could happen. I just took the bill and paid what it said when it said.

I have never been issued with a reminder or final notice for the amount I am being summoned for. If I had, I would have paid it immediately.

I've therefore also just discovered I am probably about to get late payment notices for all of this year's payments, which I thought I was paying and hadn't!

Now my question is this:

What is my recourse in this case? I would like to go to court and explain that I think the council have been delinquent in explaining to me exactly what I've owed, as I would have paid immediately, and then have punished me unnecessarily.

I think that the council have not informed me of the immediacy of the £700 debt, and in fact this is supported by it being July now when I get final reminder for it.

I think that the council have not given me the chance to settle the remainder of the outstanding debt after I (unknowingly!) made two payments towards it.

Or should I just pay the outstanding amount and summons charge even though it really annoys me that I've done nothing wrong and ended up paying £45 extra for nothing.

Thoughts would be very much appreciated.

I am a little confused by your original post:

Who was living in the property the day before father died?
If it was just father (or father plus carer) then father was getting the 25% discount?
Who was father's personal representative?
I had this situation a couple of years back when by uncle - Mr Dog - died and a similar situation 15 years ago when a great aunt died.
My first step was to open a building society account as "the executor of Mr Dog dec'd" and then write to all creditors, including the council asking for an account up to to the date of death.
That freezes the situation until probate is granted and statutory notices have been placed in the London Gazette (if the deceased lived in England) plus one of the local papers.

Any subsequent bills have to be addressed to "the personal representative of Mr Dog dec'd."

As long as the property is not occupied you get a tax holiday until the grant of probate/letters of administration plus 6 months.
You cannot be expected to advertise for creditors and distribute the estate until you have been granted "admon" from the court. So you are perfectly within your rights to write to pushy creditors and tell them you have no access to funds until you get the authority of the court.

Obviously as soon as a living person moves into the property he/she becomes liable for any future council tax, and I would expect the first bill from the council to explain how this new occupier's liability had been calculated.

There seems to be some sort of muddling up of more than one occupier's liabilities here.
The fact that you as executor (?) and then later as occupier does not excuse the council (or you) from doing the accounting legally correctly, identifying which legal entity was responsible for which tax liability and raising an invoice and summons accordingly.

It is my experience that large powerful organisations try to browbeat the weak and ineffectual.
My response to that attitude is a two fingered salute.
[British Gas was my bete noir but that is a long story in itself.]

redpola

Many thanks for the response John, but I think you have the wrong end of the stick. This problem is nothing to do with the probate. I'm satisfied that was all closed out correctly. This is my first bill after all that stuff, and the council are probably doing everything legally. My issue is simply that I am being taken to court before I was given the opportunity to clear the final debt. That has incurred a summons fee which I feel is unfair.

The issue is how they have communicated with me, not the amounts payable.

Thanks,

Neil.