Sleep in hours and holiday pay?

bestpud

emmy05 wrote: »

yeah i was thinking that the hours you did as sleep in, then youd be able to take them and choose the same amount of day time hours off for annual leave, if that makes sense

Oh right - I see what you mean now! I can be a tad thick at times (most of the time in fact! :rotfl: )

As a lone worker, we are the only person there so if someone calls we have to get up. That's the bit I find unfair about it really - we cannot do what we want and cannot guarantee we won't be called. My OH gets an on call allowance just for being 'available' and then gets paid a set amount and so much per hour if he has to go in.

It has settled now but a few years ago they went through a phase where they were called several times each night by one resident (illness but they have it under control now) and got no extra pay despite basically doing waking nights, as I see it.

Conor_3

Lets put it this way, under Drivers Hours rules (which I know don't relate but bear with me) a break is not counted as a break unless the driver is free to dispose of their time as they wish. If they are required to stay with their vehicle even though not doing any work, such as when waiting to get unloaded, it's classed as a period of availability - you're not working but may be required to start work at any time - and this is regarded by all employers as working time.

I would expect similar to apply.

bestpud

Conor wrote: »

Lets put it this way, under Drivers Hours rules (which I know don't relate but bear with me) a break is not counted as a break unless the driver is free to dispose of their time as they wish. If they are required to stay with their vehicle even though not doing any work, such as when waiting to get unloaded, it's classed as a period of availability - you're not working but may be required to start work at any time - and this is regarded by all employers as working time.

I would expect similar to apply.

Yes, that's my argument in a nutshell really. My employer says we can basically do what we want (ie sit up all night) but I say we can't at all.

joeblack066

Whan I was working in Resi Care, both via agency and employed, you were able to claim any hours that you had to work during your sleep in at the daytime rate. I'd check with ACAS if I were you.

emmy05

that sounds dodgy, ive honestly never heard of just one person on, but he calls it a sleepover? i thought you had to have one waking staff still to make sure nothing happened during the night, seems to me that its cheaper for this employer not to pay more, hes taking advantage x

jobbingmusician

emmy05 wrote: »

that sounds dodgy, ive honestly never heard of just one person on, but he calls it a sleepover? i thought you had to have one waking staff still to make sure nothing happened during the night, seems to me that its cheaper for this employer not to pay more, hes taking advantage x

No, this isn't dodgy. Some homes have to have waking cover, and some sleeping cover. If the staffing levels require sleeping cover, it is perfectly fine to have one person on, who can sleep within specified hours if not needed. There is normally a requirement to have another staff member on call, so that if the sleeping staff member was woken to take someone to hospital, for example, the cover staff could attend the premises and become the staff member on duty.

However, the OP seems to imply that they are not given TOIL (time off in lieu) for times in the night when they have to work. This IS dodgy. Case law on this does not seem to be well established yet, but http://www.tgwu.org.uk/Templates/Campaign.asp?NodeID=91916 might be a useful read.

Is there a union at your workplace? This link seems to suggest that joining one might be a good idea..... (Employers are forced to recognise a union, for negotiating purposes, if a certain percentage of the workplace signs up to union membership! )

emmy05

ahhh right, got ya, good luck to you finding out more, and hope all gets sorted too x

bestpud

Thanks for the replies.

The home does not need waking staff at night as the residents do not need that level of support. Plus there is no need to have more than one carer during the daytime for the same reason.

I should make it clear we are rarely called at night. It tends to happen if one, or more, of them are unwell. Last week I was called because the resident had a sore throat. I was only up 'working' for around 20 minutes (although it obviously took me longer than that to get back to sleep!) Another member of staff was up from 4am a few weeks ago (didn't get back to bed at all) one morning though, so it just depends on the problem. But generally, the problems are quite quickly dealt with.

Re a union: It is a very small home and only has three members of staff. Because we work alone, we wouldn't get to see each other to find out what others think usually. I do however as one of the other workers is a relative.

I have my contract now and it only states the working hours on there, not the sleep in hours, although it does say in a seperate paragraph that I am required to do a sleep in. I haven't signed it yet as I want to get more info first!

It's a little difficult as I love the job and get on very well with my employer. In other aspects, they are very supportive and cannot be faulted. So I'm reluctant to rock the boat too much, but at the same time, I don't want to be down on my pay every time I take annual leave.

I had never really considered being paid for getting up during the night (as it isn't a frequent occurance I guess) so will look into that too.

Thanks again for your input.

Conor_3

bestpud wrote: »

Yes, that's my argument in a nutshell really. My employer says we can basically do what we want (ie sit up all night) but I say we can't at all.

So the response is that if you're free to do what you want, he has no problem with you going out to the cinema, going bowling or going and getting a pizza. If the response to that is anything but, "yeah no problem" then you're at work.

hopetohelp_3

Hi, I only registered so i can post this reply. I know it's a bit out of date, but I hope to be useful to anyone going through the same thing. It happened the same at the company I work for. Went to Citizen Advice and they found Working Time Regulations 1998, where it says pretty clearly at the section "On Call" Workers, that "time spent 'on call' (or standby) has to be counted entirely as working time if the employee is required to be physically present at her/his place of work, or another place of work determined by the employer, and to be available for work. This is the case even if the worker is resting. (....) E.g. a doctor on call at a hospital will have her/his hours counted as working hours, even if s/he is allowed to sleep while on call. (....)...even if a worker can sleep at work while s/he is on call, all hours spent at the workplace count as working hours and not hours of rest

I`m going tomorrow to show this to my manager.

For any problems of this sort, I strongly recommend to go to Citizen Advice. It's free, they have a great team, and they have access to information that would take you weeks of law reading until finding what you are interested in.

They made my employer to change her/his mind a couple of times when s/he decided to play with words and their meaning, thus affecting our pay.

Don't let your employers get away with anything they want...and don't let comments from other people that don't know the law prevent you from taking action. I had a comment from a colleague that only works daytime..."Well, why should you get holiday pay for sleep ins?"....now she knows why!!!:D