Proper Training For Newly Qualified Cemap Advisers...where Is It???

BLUroma

I'm newly CeMAP qualified (November 2007) and have joined a company which was supposed to train me to become a Mortgage Adviser. Much to my dismay after being there for 3 1/2 months now it's almost like pulling teeth to get proper help. The owner is always busy doing things or not there a lot of the time, out on customer visits. The other brokers do help if I ask, but it really shouldn't be their responsibility to train me, they didn't hire me! Their no the one's getting any financial reward off of me...30% COMMISSION.

What is it with companies that hire us as newly qualified advisers and than don't invest any of their time to properly train us, so we can earn a living in this business? What are they earning their commission % off me for? Wouldn't it make sense to invest a lot of time with me in the first 3 months let's say, with a schedule of training so that I can get up and advising ASAP, plus making money? The faster I make money the more money the company will make off of me!

If it wasn't for my own tenacity, drive and resourcefulness I wouldn't have even made it as far as I currently have to this point. Needless to say I am quite disheartened by the experience and unfortunately it's rendered me frozen to go and talk to the person that hired me about my disappointment.

When I have a question and go ask I do get help, but I honestly thought there would have been, SHOULD HAVE BEEN, some sort of scheduled training program once I walked in the door as a new person to the business. I've never worked in mortgages before, so how am I supposed to know what to do at every stage. Passing CeMAP is the smallest part of the whole thing as far as I'm concerned. Doing the job well is the biggest hurdle.

With the way I'm feeling right now I honestly think I should look for a full-time job somewhere (not be self-employed). BUT I'm scared of getting into the same situation as I'm in now...NO ON THE JOB TRAINING!!! I feel somewhat trapped, it took quite a while to get everything set up, signing up with the lenders and going through all the network compliance testing etc, that I can't even bring myself to bear starting all over somewhere else.

This isn't the first time this has happened either, the company I worked with part-time during my CeMAP studies was sort of the same...VERY LITTLE TRAINING, and I joined there as a 'Trainee' Mortgage Adviser. Hence that I was supposed to be 'TRAINED.' I ended up leaving to join this other company and now the same sort of problem is there too. YIKES!

I've talked to other newly qualified advisers that have joined Independent companies and it seems to be an unfortunate fact all-around...LACK OF TRAINING!!! Even someone from a bank said the same thing. They just seem to throw you in the deep end and figure you should know how to swim. Than they turn their back on you and don't give you much notice after that.

Trust me I do know I will have to speak to the person that hired me, I guess as of today I just need to vent and ask for help from unbiased people that don't know me. SO, HELP!!! If anyone else that is newly qualified and is going through the same sort of thing I'd love to hear from you. Or if someone who has been in the business for a while could offer me some advice I'd greatly appreciate it!

I TRULY WANT TO BE A GOOD MORTGAGE ADVISER!!! I JUST NEED SOME HAND HOLDING UNTIL I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING, THAN I'LL BE ABLE TO WALK & EVENTUALLY HIT THE GROUND RUNNING!!!

IS THERE LIFE AFTER QUALIFYING FOR CEMAP???!!! TALK ABOUT INITIATION BY FIRE!!!!!!!!!

Thanx Kindly ~ BLUroma

dunstonh

Wouldn't it make sense to invest a lot of time with me in the first 3 months let's say, with a schedule of training so that I can get up and advising ASAP, plus making money?

It would cost more to train you to some extent. Plus at the moment, I wouldnt be surprised if mortgage advisers at a larger firm are all trying to protect their own business whilst things are bad.

I've talked to other newly qualified advisers that have joined Independent companies and it seems to be an unfortunate fact all-around...LACK OF TRAINING!!!

Yes. Joining existing firms to work on self employed basis is the hardest way to learn and get up and running.

IS THERE LIFE AFTER QUALIFYING FOR CEMAP???!!!

The industry stats show that half leave within 2 years having failed to make a go of it.

Whilst it is an advice profession, the early days is more of a sales role than an advice role. This is the period that removes the chaff and those that arent able to look after themselves and get business. Some very knowledgable advisers will fail at this stage because at this point, knowledge means nothing. Getting clients and getting business is.

Its been like that for decades. Back in the early 90s when I started the advice role at a bank, the new recruits were stuck in the poor branches. Those that did a good job were rewarded and moved onto the better branches. Those that failed were quickly encouraged to call it a day.

No-one is going to hand business to you on a plate. Especially whilst things are so bad for mortgages at the moment. You need to look at the business model of your firm and see how the others get their mortgages. If its a shop front and the walk ins are handed to those that are in the shop at the time then you need to have long hours by being in the shop all the time to make sure you get them.

BLUroma

dunstonh wrote: »

It would cost more to train you to some extent.

I get what you mean, BUT honestly speaking why even hire me in the first place...I'm a trainee...hence TRAIN ME!!! If you don't want to put in the time to train me, don't hire me!!!

dunstonh wrote: »

Yes. Joining existing firms to work on self employed basis is the hardest way to learn and get up and running.

Indeed, I've figured that out now. Promises of high commissions, but a high commission on NO business is a high commission of '0' isn't it.

dunstonh wrote: »

No-one is going to hand business to you on a plate.

I don't expect anyone to 'GIVE' me business, I'm getting that on my own. All I expected is to be trained on how to do the job...AIPs, how to do an online application, basics and I'm barely getting that. I don't even get asked on a weekly basis how I'm doing. Or of that matter, what I'm doing!

dunstonh wrote: »

Especially whilst things are so bad for mortgages at the moment. You need to look at the business model of your firm and see how the others get their mortgages. If its a shop front and the walk ins are handed to those that are in the shop at the time then you need to have long hours by being in the shop all the time to make sure you get them.

I am spending a lot of time there and trying to see how the other 2 advisers are making out while the boss is out, as well as trying to figure it out myself as I'm sure not getting much guidance. It's definitely sink or swim time! Thanx for your input! ~ BLUroma

MortgageMamma

Hi BluRoma

I think I remember you posting on here when you were taking CeMAP your name is familiar.

I was in the same situation as you when I started out, took on by a company promising me training and got none, just a desk and a computer, a sourcing system and "10 deals a month or your out" on my first day. I was so upset.

I eventually managed to get some business in but it was hard. I was lucky though because I'd worked in financial planning before having done FPC, so some of the stuff (re protection not mortgages!) was there, but I didnt realise how specialised mortgages were at the time.

Months went by and I made me mistakes and had my embarassing moments, my confidence hit the floor and then gradually got better. I then left that firm when they failed to pay me my commission after 8 months and went to another firm.

The next firm was exactly the same, although I had no targets as was self employed so had the breathing space to learn. Whilst I was quiet for business I saw every BDM from every lender that I could. I read through lenderds websites and sourcing system critieria.

I know you are finding it hard and frustrating right now and I can relate to that, but do stick at it as if you crack it this is the best job ever. you get a great sense of achievement and most of the time a decent pay packet to compliment that.

I have lots of tips to help you and I'm prepared to help you out where I can. I am not overrun with business just now so have a bit of spare time.

If you want to get in touch, do PM me, you'll be glad you did.

Go forth and destress. tommorow is another day

MM

homer_j_3

Its funny that this post has come up today. I think that the industry needs to go through the RDR that IFA's will be going through.

I think that CeMap should be the entry level to get you to Trainee Status.

You should then have a 3 year period where you have to demonstrate knowledge through written assignments and demonstrate with evidenced work of meeting certain skills and knowledge.

In these 3 years, you should be started on full supervision and until you have got to a certain point in your training and this supervision decreases as you progress. After the 3 years, you should then be able to call yourself a mortgage adviser.

The company responsible for your advice must provide this support and training.

It gets my goat that for £400, anybody can call themselves a mortgage adviser. Clearly there will be a difference between a bank adviser who has passed cemap1 and someone that deals with a number of lenders and has over 10 years experience.

dunstonh

I think that the industry needs to go through the RDR that IFA's will be going through.

The FSA has proposed extending it to mortgage advice. I think it would be a good idea as its not all about passing exams.

homer_j_3

Thats my point Dunston - Anybody can pass cemap and as this post has backed up, it is not nearly enough for you to be confident or certain that you are actually giving the best advice.

Would I make a killing opening the HomerJ school of advice lol.

When I did my FPC's - On the final paper, you had to go through case studies and go through them and find inconsistencies and provide written understandings to why it is inconsistent etc. Like any multiple choice, if you don't know you can guess - if you have to write an answer without choice, that can be more difficult.

UK007BullDog

Proper training does not exist anywhere and I have done my bit employed and self employed, brokers, banks and estate agents.

The best training was from Barclays. I was told A&L do a good job too.

The best place to learn is from sites like these, cherry (broker hangout), mortgage advisers newspapers and magazines.

Sit with the other brokers and watch listen what they do. Look at lenders websites as suggested.

This job is very much a lonely profession where you need to help yourself. As you are self employed you do not cost the business anything except for the indemnity. If you want to get anywhere you will have to do everything yourself.

BLUroma

Thank you very much for remembering me MortgageMama and for replying to my thread. I greatly appreciate everyone's comments and support. I know I have to let go of the fantasy of the way I thought it would be, suck it up and embrace the reality, and realise any success I achieve will be on 'WHAT I MAKE IT!!!' Reaching out and seeking advice from experienced advisers such as yourselves, joining a group, reading lots, etc, will be my way forward & upward in this business. Keep-on-keeping-on! Thanx ~ BLUroma

Conrad

The FSA have strict rules around supervision. In essence no one is supposed to give unsupervised advice until thier supervisor has signed them off as competent in discharging thier TCF responsibilities. The owner of your firm is living dangerously.

There are hundreds of potential mistakes waiting to trip up the inexperienced adviser. Make sure if you do make a serious error, that you document everything to protect yourself. I would also keep all emails and hard copy sales directives on a secret file if I were you.

Have you thought about whistleblowing via the FSA's own website?

Individuals like your boss are the reason this industry has a bad name.

Training will only get you so far. Experience is the true guide. I've been at it since 1991 and I still learn new things every week.
Few other roles suffer such high staff hemoarging (sp!) rates.

missk_ensington

Hi, I've just started doing my Cemap as a home study after applying for a hosty a jobs as a trainee financial advisor that require it, and all the jobs I'm applying for have a salary but Ive noticed youve said most are self employed, can you clarify? The starting salary is also really good - minimum £18,000 up to £25,000 - is this a con or something???