Holidays have been unpaid - need advice before Monday please!

RubyShoes

Hello,

My Dp currently works for Manpower (agency) in a callcentre but on a permanent basis. He is entitled to 24 days paid holiday.

He tells me their leave year runs from 1st February.

Due to it being the kids half term recently, my DP booked off 3 days holiday. I then told him to cancel 1 day, and just take 2, as I was able to swap a shift.

So, DP had 2 days off w/c 11th Feb. He should have been paid for that week on Friday 22nd Feb. When he checked his wages, he has only been paid for 2 days work. :eek:

What do we do, and what rights does he have? I am wondering if its the fact that he hasn't 'accrued' the leave which is the problem? However, surely the fact that we are now coming up to the end of feb, in which he would have accrued 2 days leave, he should be entitled to it?

Im a bit confused. Surely he is entitled to leave... what if he needed a week off in Feb/March? He wouldn't have accrued this leave, so they can get away with not paying him? Does that mean that he can't take holidays in this period of time, unless he is happy not to be paid?

I am so fed up with this company, they are taking the bloody biscuit. Crap pay (less pay than those taken on by the company), no sick pay, no pension, unable to take all his holidays last year (he started in August, and was put on the floor mid September - by December they put him on a performance management for not meeting targets, which means he couldn't take holidays as the targets are not adjusted for any leave!) the list just goes on.

His Union were right in their recent newsletter - agency workers are treated appallingly.

If he is entitled to recieve pay for these 2 holidays (and he definately is entitled to be paid for the other day he worked!) then how quickly can he get the money that is owed to him! We need it desperately.

Thanks, and sorry for the moan, its just getting me very down right now.

RubyShoes

Am I right in thinking, that he is entitled to 4.8 weeks of PAID leave, so therefore, if they are aruging that he hadn't accrued the leave, then the 1.2 days (I worked out he was due 0.8 days leave accrued from 1st-11th feb) they could be refusing to pay, should be taken as unpaid leave, therefore, meaning he still has entitlement to that 1.2 days as paid leave in the future?

They can't refuse to pay him, but make him take it as holiday anyway, surely?

MissSunshine

It is more than likely that he hasn't accrued the holiday pay. I temped for an agency last year and could only take paid leave once I'd earnt it and it had to be a whole day rather than 0.8, rather than now I'm permanently employed being able to take it regardless.

It's swing and roundabouts really, because of the nature of agency work they're not going to risk paying holiday pay up front then not being able to get the money back from wages should the agency worker leave, where as if I leave my permanent employment if I haven't earnt enough holiday upto that point but taken it then money will be deducted from my final pay.

Has your dp got a signed timesheet for the 3 days he worked, if so he's owed 1 day's pay.

It is a pain OP but at least agency workers do now get holiday pay unlike when I started with them 12 years ago.

Savvy_Sue

I would have thought that sending in a copy of that week's timesheet pointing out that he'd worked 3 days not two would get the extra day's money with his next payment. He really needs to ask the agency what happens with his paid leave: it may be that they don't allow him to take it before he's accrued it, and only in whole days, but that does still mean another day's pay - unless they work in whole months when calculating it? ie not entitled to any paid leave until the end of Feb.

But he'll need to ask the agency to establish that.

ACAS website may be helpful. Any chance of him moving to the main employer rather than through an agency?

RubyShoes

See, thats part of the misconception. Although he works for an agency, it IS on a permanent basis. He is in one fixed place of work, and its definately permanent.

Can't even check his contract - because he hasn't recieved one. No matter how many times I have told him they are breaking the law by not providing one within 2 months of employment - he won't do anything about it! I can't exactly go wading in for him!

I suspect they will somehow wriggle out of this, but I will certainly be getting him to contact the Union (CWU) for their advice.

He is owed a minimum of 1 days pay, and I believe he is owed another 0.8 on top of that if they are saying he has to accrue it.

See, without the contract we have no idea! I have been scouting about on the internet - and on CAB's website, it says in the first year leave is accrued. After that he should just be entitled to take it whenever as long as he requests it and it was approved (which it was). So, even though he hasn't been there a year, he is still in to his 2nd year in terms of leave years.

Confused? I am!!

I am now worrying that he has lost out completely. They are going to refuse to pay him saying he hasn't accrued the leave, but then he won't be entitled to the leave in future, because they are saying he has already taken 2 days of leave this year. So, he will only of had unpaid holiday, when he is entitled to PAID holiday!!

Oh, and to make things worse, there are 2 bank hols in March, which he has to have off, as they are not open on bank hols. He won't have accrued the full leave for these by the time they come around, so he might not even be paid then, even though they take the bank hols out of his holiday entitlement! (He has to request them off as part of the normal request process, although they are automatically off on bank hols!)

They are also the type of company that until October last year, made you take bank holidays out of the previous 20 day entitlement... :rolleyes: leaving you with just 12 days a year!

Atleast my DP has a job interview on Wednesday. For a non agency. Thank god. I will breathe a sigh of relief when he gets shut of bloody Manpower.

RubyShoes

Savvy Sue - no chance of moving to the main company, as he has to wait for contracts to come up, and there are a lot more infront of him who would get the jobs. He has only been doing this type of work since he joined them, so is still learning really. He doesn't meet all of the targets yet, so they won't even consider him. He also has to go over to inbound at somepoint (he is on outbound) and do 6 months there before they will consider him!

Have checked ACAS, and CAB. Am planning to contact ACAS on monday, but I am on training myself, with my manager, so can't even sneak off to make calls. Am going to have to try and do it on my lunch... if I can!

He will speak to the agency first thing monday, but as we have had previous experience of, they don't always get it right!

Becles

I was with Manpower some years ago, and the rule was then that you couldn't have paid holiday until you had accrued it.

The holiday year ran from 1st Feb. So in Jan, there were loads of people taking off random days that they didn't really want as holiday, just to use up their accrued leave before they lost it on Feb 1st.

LittleVoice

Some points:

Check when his holiday year starts. Often agencies operate on the basis of the year running from the first day of your first paid assignment. (So years can run from 3 Feb to 2 Feb, 18 Aug to 17 Aug, etc.)

If his holiday year does run from 1 February, did he take all his holiday entitlement by 31 January? If not, he will have lost that.

If his personal holiday year is running from sometime in August, keep an eye on the calendar and if he is still working with Manpower in the summer he should ensure that he does take holiday right at the end of the period. If you really need the money at that time, he could always work for a different agency whilst being on holiday from Manpower. (It isn't what the Working Time regulations are meant for, but "needs must".)

Whilst some agencies may work on the "whole day" basis, others (eg Brook Street) show temps accruing holiday as hours.

Certainly check that Manpower have been correctly advised of the actual time worked. If timesheets are submitted electronically the employing organisation may not have adjusted their records from the time when he was planning to work only 2 days.

If he hasn't accrued holiday, it won't be paid by an agency. And did Manpower know he was taking holiday or was it just that the place where he works knew?

If you get in touch with Manpower on Monday morning, they should be able to check things through and make arrangements for him to be paid any outstanding money with his next pay - 29 February.

Having worked for Manpower since August, he should be entitled to claim SSP through them. (Though this isn't much, it is better than nothing.) It is also sensible to find out how they deal with qualifying days.

RubyShoes

Its definately 1st Feb - he was paid (which was shock!) for the leave he didn't take from 6th August 07 - 31st January 08.

He can't afford to take the leave because of the way their targets work - ie. not reducing them if you have leave/sickness! He is already not getting any bonus pay this month, because they reduced their January time to make target down to 3 weeks due to the centre being closed over christmas, and the last friday of the month being on the 26th Jan!

If it is the case that they won't pay him for any of the leave, then he will only have recieved £650 (after tax!)for a full time wage this month!!! He should recieve £800, plus bonus if he meets target. He had to have a day off sick this month, as he gets very unwell (has been hospitalised with Pneumonia - weak lungs due to his prematurity) but because he doesn't get paid, and SSP is so shockingly low, he won't take more than a day off! Vicious circle! He keeps getting ill because he hasn't recovered from the last one!

The money is just sh*t. He got £160 the week before last (due to sick day) and £101 this week.

LittleVoice

My comments added into the quote:

RubyShoes wrote: »

See, thats part of the misconception. Although he works for an agency, it IS on a permanent basis. He is in one fixed place of work, and its definately permanent. He must get the written particulars - this will show whether he has a fixed term contract or whatever. Without it you cannot be sure that it is "permanent".

Can't even check his contract - because he hasn't recieved one. No matter how many times I have told him they are breaking the law by not providing one within 2 months of employment - he won't do anything about it! I can't exactly go wading in for him!

I suspect they will somehow wriggle out of this, but I will certainly be getting him to contact the Union (CWU) for their advice.

He is owed a minimum of 1 days pay, and I believe he is owed another 0.8 on top of that if they are saying he has to accrue it.

See, without the contract we have no idea! I have been scouting about on the internet - and on CAB's website, it says in the first year leave is accrued. After that he should just be entitled to take it whenever as long as he requests it and it was approved (which it was). So, even though he hasn't been there a year, he is still in to his 2nd year in terms of leave years.

Confused? I am!!

But it is his first year - and may be his first leave year. You don't know because you don't have the written particulars.

I am now worrying that he has lost out completely. They are going to refuse to pay him saying he hasn't accrued the leave, but then he won't be entitled to the leave in future, because they are saying he has already taken 2 days of leave this year. So, he will only of had unpaid holiday, when he is entitled to PAID holiday!!

They can't refuse him the annualised paid leave. Maybe they will be willing to pay retrospectively for the two days once he has, according to their rules, accrued the time. Do ask about that.

Oh, and to make things worse, there are 2 bank hols in March, which he has to have off, as they are not open on bank hols. He won't have accrued the full leave for these by the time they come around, so he might not even be paid then, even though they take the bank hols out of his holiday entitlement! (He has to request them off as part of the normal request process, although they are automatically off on bank hols!)

How can you say this when you don't have the written particulars which would define how their holiday arrangements work?

They are also the type of company that until October last year, made you take bank holidays out of the previous 20 day entitlement... :rolleyes: leaving you with just 12 days a year!

But he could have taken unpaid leave. The statutory minimum includes bank holidays, so one way or another you get paid for the minimum (subject of course to working enough time).

Atleast my DP has a job interview on Wednesday. For a non agency. Thank god. I will breathe a sigh of relief when he gets shut of bloody Manpower.

If he does get a job elsewhere, then Manpower will have to pay for any holiday accrued but not taken by the time he leaves.

LittleVoice

RubyShoes wrote: »

Its definately 1st Feb - he was paid (which was shock!) for the leave he didn't take from 6th August 07 - 31st January 08.

. . .

He had to have a day off sick this month, as he gets very unwell (has been hospitalised with Pneumonia - weak lungs due to his prematurity) but because he doesn't get paid, and SSP is so shockingly low, he won't take more than a day off! Vicious circle! He keeps getting ill because he hasn't recovered from the last one!
. . .

If they paid him for holiday not taken, then I think they are breaking the law!

If he is taking time off for sickness, do the days link according to SSP rules?