salary overpayment and repayment

dunk1127

probably much discussed already elsewhere but anyway
short version, worked for firm 4 year, low basic but allowances and rosta money and commitment money and plus diff hourly rates meant the basic was pretty much doubled with out the need for overtime. new job..same firm, higher basic, less allowances but some listed in the contract to do with weekend working, for one year i was overpaid by about £600, an allowance was listed on my wage slip, i submitted no timesheets with anything other than my normal 37 hrs a week shown, i claimed no extra overtime or allowances(nor did i in my previous role, they were added automatically) it took my firm a year to realise and took me in to sort a repayment, initially the whole amount, my question is this, does estoppel come into effect here, i was not aware i wasnt due any allowances, nothing was really mentioned at the interview stage, i spent monies monthly as i was paid, and on no account did i attemp to defraud the company by putting falsified timesheets in.
sorry for long intro but hope some light can be shed on this worrying and stressful to me matter

dunk1127

i forgot something, my manager told an office supervisor about my sutuation, someone who shouldnt have been told, that supervisor then told others, have i got a claim here under breach of trust and confidence?

dmg24

No, estoppel does not come into play. Assuming they can prove the overpayment, you need to arrange to pay it back.

You may wish to submit a grievance against the office manager and supervisor, but this would be a completely separate issue to the overpayment.

dunk1127

they can show what ive been paid as its on my wageslips, it was their error, a payroll inputting one. my contract isnt clear cut as to what im entitled too? i get a percentage for weekends worked but it differs depending on how many weekend pers month etc

dmg24

Irrespective of who made the error, you are liable to repay the outstanding amount.

dunk1127

just found this :-


"In order to show that an overpayment is not recoverable, then the employee must demonstrate three things. Firstly, it must be shown that the overpayment was the fault of the company and not the employee. Secondly, it must have been reasonable for the employee not to know that they were being overpaid. Thirdly, the employee must have acted to their disadvantage or the assumption that the payment of salary was correct (for example by spending the money!). The most common difficulty for employees is the second condition since it is often obvious when an overpayment has occurred. It is not acceptable for an employee to assume that they have received a substantial increase in pay unless there is some reason to believe that this is he case"

Lakeuk

Don't you check you payslip and make a point of knowing what you should be getting - what if you were underpaid, would that bother you?

dmg24

I do find it hard to believe that you did not know that you were being overpaid. As Lakeuk said, I am sure that you would have noticed had you been underpaid.

dunk1127

for the previous 4 years i had been paid various allowances and was not made aware that the new pay structure would not have any, and as i have said some were mentioned in my contract but only as percentages.

jobbingmusician

In your position I would argue on the basis which you have reported in post #6 - that you did not know you were being overpaid, and so are not liable to repay the money.

However, if you DO have to repay (and if the total is lower than several thousands of pounds I would have thought that it might be better to repay than to p*ss your employer off mightily!) I think you could and should argue that you are willing to repay but in stages. I am not clear from your original post how much you owe, but if it is £600, that is only £50 a month over a year....

aah

if you have no trade union it looks like a clear case for am employment tribunal to me.

and a grievance for the other issue. then you can go to an et with them both.

you do sound confused. 600 over a year isn't masses, can't they just give you the benefit of the doubt...