Scottish Amicable Endowment - Payment Of Further Bonus

bennyboy3

pdx123 wrote:

Hi bennyboy3,
I too have a Scottish Amicable/Prudential policy, though mine matures next year. I have kept all the original documentation regarding the takeover in 1997. I had a cash payout and a statement declaring that a special bonus (at the time about £700) would be applied at maturity. I was under the impression that this was an additional payment, over and above the normal maturity value of the policy. I would be interested to know how successful you are at getting this Bonus...best of luck!

PDX 123

There seems to be a little confusion here.

My query with Prudential relates to the "further bonus" and not the "special bonus" which was allocated to with-profits policies in October 1997.

These further bonuses should be distributed when policies are paid out in addition to the special bonuses that were allocated to policies in October 1997.

There are more details on the further bonuses in Scottish Amicables Policyholders Circular which was issued prior to the transfer of business in 1997. If you have this circular, the details can be found in the summary on page 3 and the section entitled "benefits to members and policyholders" .

The further bonus is also referred to in a letter Scottish Amicable sent to
policyholders in October 1997 when they confirmed the cash payment and special bonus.

Hope this clarifies matters

bennyboy3

jnd wrote:

Got out my papers and it shows a Total Special Bonus on a schedule that accompanied a letter dated 14th October 1997 which talks about the transfer to the Pru and the benefits. At the bottom of the schedule it states: Please note that the amount of Special Bonus shown applies at maturity. Not that it's much mind you, but still.......

JND

Please see my post above.

tambour

bennyboy3 wrote: »

I currently have two with profits endowments with Scottish Amicable which were taken out in the mid to late 80's and they are due to mature in July and August of this year.

In October 1997 Scottish Amicable was taken over by Prudential and as part of the take over certain promises were made to Scottish Amicable policy holders at that time. These promises were as follows

1- a cash payment was made to qualifying members
2- special bonuses were added to qualifying policies in October 1997
3- a further bonus would be added to qualifying with profits policies when they matured.

Both my policies are qualifying policies and i have been paid the cash sum and my policies enhanced as detailed in 1+2 above.

I recently received maturity value details relating to the policy which matured
in July. However the letter I received from them confirming the maturity value of this policy only details the basic sum assured , the reversionary bonuses and the amount of terminal bonus. No mention is made in the letter of the further bonus which was promised back in 1997.


I contacted Prudential regarding this and they have confirmed that the further bonus is due and is included in the maturity value. According to them the special bonus awarded in 1997 has been increased by the annual bonus percentage since 1997 and the terminal bonus when applied to that final figure (ie special bonus+ enhancements) gives me a greater terminal bonus, than if no special bonus had been awarded in 1997.

I understand what there saying but i dont agree with it. I have looked in detail at the policy circular issued prior to the take over and as far as i'm concerned the further bonus should be a seperate payment and there is no indication from the policy document that it is linked directly to the amount of terminal bonus applied to the special bonus. I told Scottish Amicable this and they have admitted verbally that the wording of the policy circular was clumsy regarding the payment of the further bonus.

I'm now at the point that where i feel have to make a formal complaint as I feel i was mislead at the time of the takeover - because i assumed i would receive a further bonus when my policies were paid out, and as far as i'm concerned I'm not getting it.

Before i do this i was wondering if anyone else has had a similar problem with Scottish Amicable and how they resolved it, or if there are any other Scottish Amicable members who are under the same impression as me.

Thanks

Benny Boy
Saw yr post of July 2005. My Scotam WP Endowment policy matured in August this year with no mention of any bonuses in the breakdown of the final maturity value.Thought you would be interested to hear that I have asked the PRU ( no Scotam now) to advise how the bonuses promised in the October 1997 Scotam letter had been dealt with.
In their reply there was no mention at all of the promised further bonuses. However they claim the Special Bonus "was added to the Plan in October 1997 and that this was included in the total ' existing declared bonus' figure in the 1997 bonus statement" . On requesting a copy of the 1997 Bonus Statement they replied " we do not hold copies of previous bonus statements. " Are you able to supply copies of written advice you received from Scotam in 2005 which explains how your Special Bonus was dealt with as you appear to be satisfied that this was dealt with properly. My IFA has copies of 1996 and 1998 Bonus Statements but have not so far been able to locate a 1997 Bonus Statement.Do you have PROOF from Scotam ( eg a 1997 Bonus Statement )that the bonuses were paid in / added to the plan in 1997 or did you take Scotam's word for it that this is what they had done?

There appear to be a number of inconsistencies emerging in the Scotam Bonus story. Hope you are able to help. There must be tens of thousands of policy holders out there in a similar position to ourselves.

Regards
tambour

worldtraveller

Firstly, thanks to EdInvestor for directing me to this thread.

I have all the correspondence from Scottish Amicable (SA) both before & during the transfer of business to the Pru.

A letter from SA dated 16th October, 1997 stated, as bennyboy3 says above, namely:

QUOTE
As a qualifying member you are entitled to the following benefits, which are detailed on the enclosed schedule:
- A fixed cash sum of £250 plus a variable cash payment. A cheque for the sum of £ xx in respect of this is attached.

- A special bonus added to each of your qualifying policies as at 1st October 1997
UNQUOTE

The page with the tear-off cheque attached, which was the "Schedule of variable cash payments and special bonuses", states:

QUOTE
Please note that the amount of Special Bonus shown applies at maturity.
UNQUOTE

Looking at my SA Bonus Declaration for 1997, the Special Bonus, as above, was indeed added to the "Existing Declared Bonus" on that date (as an increase in value in the Existing Declared Bonus of exactly the amount of the Special Bonus).

I hope that this may help.

EdInvestor

One assumes that if you surrender the policy before maturity, then this bonus is deducted as part of the surrender value.

worldtraveller

EdInvestor wrote: »

One assumes that if you surrender the policy before maturity, then this bonus is deducted as part of the surrender value.

Sounds logical. I would be interested to hear if anyone has had this happen to confirm.

johncr

bennyboy3 wrote: »

I currently have two with profits endowments with Scottish Amicable which were taken out in the mid to late 80's and they are due to mature in July and August of this year.

In October 1997 Scottish Amicable was taken over by Prudential and as part of the take over certain promises were made to Scottish Amicable policy holders at that time. These promises were as follows

1- a cash payment was made to qualifying members
2- special bonuses were added to qualifying policies in October 1997
3- a further bonus would be added to qualifying with profits policies when they matured.

Both my policies are qualifying policies and i have been paid the cash sum and my policies enhanced as detailed in 1+2 above.

I recently received maturity value details relating to the policy which matured
in July. However the letter I received from them confirming the maturity value of this policy only details the basic sum assured , the reversionary bonuses and the amount of terminal bonus. No mention is made in the letter of the further bonus which was promised back in 1997.


I contacted Prudential regarding this and they have confirmed that the further bonus is due and is included in the maturity value. According to them the special bonus awarded in 1997 has been increased by the annual bonus percentage since 1997 and the terminal bonus when applied to that final figure (ie special bonus+ enhancements) gives me a greater terminal bonus, than if no special bonus had been awarded in 1997.

I understand what there saying but i dont agree with it. I have looked in detail at the policy circular issued prior to the take over and as far as i'm concerned the further bonus should be a seperate payment and there is no indication from the policy document that it is linked directly to the amount of terminal bonus applied to the special bonus. I told Scottish Amicable this and they have admitted verbally that the wording of the policy circular was clumsy regarding the payment of the further bonus.

I'm now at the point that where i feel have to make a formal complaint as I feel i was mislead at the time of the takeover - because i assumed i would receive a further bonus when my policies were paid out, and as far as i'm concerned I'm not getting it.

Before i do this i was wondering if anyone else has had a similar problem with Scottish Amicable and how they resolved it, or if there are any other Scottish Amicable members who are under the same impression as me.

Thanks

RE : Scottish Amicable Endowment - Payment Of Further Bonus.

I have an endowment wich matures shortly, and have queried the lcak of the "further bonus" with the Pru'. I received what I guess is their normal response, namely that the cash bonus ansd special bonus were given back in 1997. No mention of the bonus tobe added at maturity. Can I assume no-one else has managed to get anywhere on this issue ?

BallooTheBear

There is a funny smell around these endowments. I have (had) unitised with profits versions from 1992. In 2004 I asked for a full surrender value, and received it in writing. A month ago I asked for it again, and the value was well over twice as much, indeed enough to pay off the mortgage.

This time they asked me which surrender value I wanted, something that they had never done before. When I asked what they meant, she said "well, what do you intend to do" when I said cash it in/surrender it now, she then quoted well over twice the amount of the 2004 figure.

I suspect that the original written surrender value did not include the unitised bonuses?

I have just called them again, now that I have paid off the mortgage with it, and asked them to explain the very large difference between the figures. Before she looked at my account, she said it was due to fluctuations in the market, or words to that effect. After she logged on and looked at the account, she almost immediately said that she would pass it on for further investigation, and that I would receive a written reply in 6 days??

I asked them to answer the above question, and also to identify if any of the 1997 special bonuses etc had been included in the figures, and for written details of this.

If they did not give me a true surrender quote in 2004, it is my intention to take the matter further.

I can just imagine that they will be asking for money back, that's how my luck runs usually!!

I will update with their answers if anyone is interested.

dunstonh

There is a funny smell around these endowments. I have (had) unitised with profits versions from 1992. In 2004 I asked for a full surrender value, and received it in writing. A month ago I asked for it again, and the value was well over twice as much, indeed enough to pay off the mortgage.

Quite common. Projections issued use example rates which may or may not reflect the true potential of the fund. In the case of with profits, some projections do not include the terminal bonus accrued to date. Some have also projected from the surrender value and the lowest value given has been lower than the guarnateed minimum which is not technically possible.

Scot Am's worst year on maturities showed a 94% success rate in hitting target. Currently they are hitting target on 100% with suprluses increasing year on year since then.

You should never rely on projections alone as a way to work out how good or bad your policy is.

TonyMMM

I have just had one of these Scottish Amicable/Prudential with profits plans mature ..taken out over 25 years in 1983 ...it came with a terminal bonus that added about 40% to the sum assured + bonuses that I was expecting ..a very pleasant surprise !!